checking a handgun at baggage counter in Newark airport

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burntrubr

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I have to fly to Houston texas, one way, and drive an RV back to NJ. I want to bring my Taurus 1911. My flight is on Continental. I have read their policy on checking a firearm...states gun must be in a lockable hard sided case, un loaded, ammo in a seperate container made to hold small amounts of ammo. I will have my Firearms id card on me as well as the permit for the pistol and copy of original receipt for the gun.

anyone have any other input as to what to do? this will be my first time flying and checking a handgun....dont want any issues....

thanks!
 
I thought that in NJ the cops shot you for even thinking about having a gun.

If you can get it checked OK, what is the point? The only legal way you can bring it back in the RV is if it is unloaded, locked in a case and out of reach of the driver.

Also, is that permit a carry permit that would allow you to take it to the airport? If not, you could be in trouble there. Also, call or better yet, go to the airport the day before the flight. Talk to the supervisor, inform him/her what you plan to do, have him/her check the policy book, and get the person's name (and anyone who may be taking the supervisor's place when you check in) and preferably a signed letter saying that checking in a gun is OK.

I think I would also contact the state police and the AG's office to make sure there is no problem. I would be afraid that an airline employee will do the "EEEKK A GUN! HELP POLICE!" thing no matter what airline policy says on paper, so you want to speak to your contact before that happens.

Jim
 
burntrubr, definitely talk to the local airport people. Federally, you're all set, but regionally I could see NJ coming up with all kinds of reasons to hassle or detain you. When I flew back from Arkansas recently, I was in a LINE of people checking firearms, no one even blinked an eye. ;)

jm
 
Jersey? If anyone less than a federal judge signs off on your transfer you can expect the full gestapo treatment. If a fed judge gives you the thumbs up in writing, you'll get the "gestapo lite" treatment.

Okay, enough sarcasm. Definitely contact the airport authorities and find out from them. Get the name of whoever gives you info.
 
I never flew with a gun before but I would probably contact everyone I could think of that would be primarily involved, at least in the beginning of some major problem scenario. I would make sure that the contacts would at least include the airport security and the people associated with checking it in. Get names. Get names of who will be there when you get there. Call on same "shift" as you would get there so perhaps you will have the same person (different people could react/understand the law differently.) If the airport is close - go in person and maybe they will recognize you. Get all the procedures down so there won't be any goof ups or what not. They will think you are an mean bad terrorist loaded with evil ideas - by default - and by "mere possession" of such an instrument (especially in jersey) so I would make sure 1) it really is legal - including any local bs regulations and such; and 2) you know all the proper procedures so you remain "legal" if it is "legal" to begin with.

Legal term inserted in quotes because of the Constitution's superiority to state and local laws.
 
Just follow the regulations of the Airline and the TSA and you won't get into any trouble.

When checking in, declare the firearm at the counter and follow the counter person's instructions. He/she will ask you to fill out a card declaring that the firearm isn't loaded and place it into the container, then they'll call for TSA to walk your gun to the baggage-loading area.

To make things easier for yourself, print-out the airline's gun check-in procedure as well as the TSA policy for checking in firearms. Put a set into your case with the gun and carry a second set on your person.
 
"mail it to yourself in tx... probably less hassle that way "


Do NOT do this. The only person who can mail a handgun is an FFL holder.
True, you can mail long guns to yourself, but not handguns.
 
ARKIESTEEL, you might be onto something there. I'm going to look into that. My flight has a stopover and transfer in Orlando...I really dont want anything to get lost...

Thanks for all the replys.
 
Normally, flying with guns is no big deal.


Here's the TSA on flying with guns:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

Here's continental on flying with guns:

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx



Normally, I'd tell you to just remember to unload, pack your gun properly, and declare it to the ticket agent properly, but Newark -was- the airport at which a traveler was illegally arrested about 2 years back. The guy was released, the charges were dropped, and the countersuit is still in progress.

In light of that, I think it fair and prudent to call them up and ask if they're still illegally arresting people. :fire:
 
Regarding sending a firearm to yourself the ATF says this:

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


http://www.atf.treas.gov/
 
Winchester 73 said:
Regarding sending a firearm to yourself the ATF says this:
Click to expand...
In fairness, the original suggestion above was to "mail" the gun to himself, which is not legal for a non-FFL. We serfs must use UPS or FedEx.
 
If anyone less than a federal judge signs off on your transfer you can expect the full gestapo treatment.

What is this based on?

Yes NJ gun laws are very restrictive but the NJ State Police even have the Firearms Owners's Protection Act on their website.

Yes the gun will have to be unloaded and locked up in NJ (see NJSP.org).

I just flew on Continental from Newark to Chicago and return this week. At Newark I declared the firearm, the airline rep just gave the card to sign and put in the case, never asked to see the gun. TSA just asked me to stand by in case they had to have me unlock the suitcase for additional screening (they didn't). In Chicago the airline rep (a woman) asked to see the gun was unloaded, gave me my card to put in the case, and TSA asked me to wait in case I had to unlock the suitcase (no reason to again). NO problems from TSA or Continental. No one asked for any permits or ID other than picture ID when I checked in at the counter.

I went armed with the links geekWithA.45 listed (good idea in case you run into someone who doesn't know what to do) but didn't need them. Those links and NJSP.org tell you everything you need to know.

I did use a combination trigger/cable lock on the revolver with the cable running down the barrel with the cylinder open (not required), locked inside gun box, and suticase locked. This would probably let the TSA screener ensure it's unloaded with just the xray. No one advised me to do this just my guess.

Newark -was- the airport at which a traveler was illegally arrested about 2 years back. The guy was released, the charges were dropped, and the countersuit is still in progress.


Yes that's true but search through this forum will show a lot of strange stuff done in gun friendly states. Besides, after the incident geek mentions I'm sure the Port Authority Police have all been advised.
 
Bet it would be less hassle to by you a shotgun when you got there and just haul it back with you. I dont think you can buy a pistol out of state??


It would be impossible as NJ doesn't allow sales of any type of firearm to non-residents.
 
Flying Out of Newark

Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

  1. Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hard-sided case with locks only you have the keys to open. TSA locks are not allowed.
  2. Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
    • Determine if the ammo MUST be in boxes OR can fly in loaded magazines.
    • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazines.
    • The round from the pipe(s) must be in a box, not loose.
  3. Secure and protect magazines and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
  4. Put the lockable hard-sided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in. The labeling should be limited to:
    • Your Name
    • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
    • Your personal email address - if you have one
    • NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
  5. Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
  6. Check this non-descript bag at the airport. Have the rules for the airline in hand.
  7. Make sure you have the keys to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in, and if the TSA wants to see.
  8. Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft to the airline, the FAA Regional Office, and the ATF Regional Office immediately.
Other points to ponder:

  1. Check www.handgunlaw.us to determine:
    • If you can possess the weapon at all your stops.
    • Where and how you can carry at all your stops.
    • What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting.
  2. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourRights/us letter.pdf. This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.
Your big issue involves the start and end of your journey. If you can legally possess at both ends, you will have no problems at Newark - even if you change modes of transportation (the Don Young Letter).
 
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If you can get it checked OK, what is the point? The only legal way you can bring it back in the RV is if it is unloaded, locked in a case and out of reach of the driver.
Click to expand...

But would it not be useful while sleeping in the RV or a hotel?

If it's legal for you to do so, buying a nice defensive shotgun for $200-$300 in Texas might be a lot less hassle.
 
If you can get it checked OK, what is the point? The only legal way you can bring it back in the RV is if it is unloaded, locked in a case and out of reach of the driver.
Click to expand...

This is NOT true. Each state is different. In some states such as Kansas, Idaho, Colorado (except Denver) it is perfectly legal to have the gun remain in a holster on the driver and loaded as long as it is full view. This is also true when leaving the vehicle at stops. Some states have pre-emption meaning cities cannot enforce laws that are more restrictive - places like Kansas do not - local cities in Kansas can have more restrictive laws, so you have to be careful. If you want to be armed and don't have a CCL valid in the state in which you are currently physically located, you need to know the state laws and it is possible. I travelled fully armed, locked, loaded in plain view in all the above states with no problems. Washington state you have to unload when you get in the vehicle without a CCL, but loaded, open carry outside the vehicle is lawful.

True - the safest way to be completely legal in all states is to abide by the Federal statutes which are there to protect travellers in states that have MORE restrictive laws than the Federal travel statute. But you do not have to abide by the Federal law if the state allows something different.

Another thing about state statutes: very few state laws will specifically spell out what IS legal. The statutes will spell out what is NOT legal. As long as a statute does NOT PROHIBIT the action, such as carrying loaded, then it is legal to do so.
 
The Port authority police in NY/NJ have a real problem with anyone having a gun, especially a handgun.
There is a lawsuit pending for someone who got delayed, missed a flight, spent the night, and then tried to check a handgun.
Best to stay away from NY & nearby NJ airports with firearms.
 
Excellent list, GHF. One thing I'd add: if flying, print out a copy of the carrier's own firearm transport policies (available from their website), and have it with you at check-in.

Just because you took the time to read their policies, it doesn't mean that the counter employee did. ;-) Put more diplomatically, checking in firearms might not be something that they do everyday or have ever done, depending upon their time on the job and their locale). They may be unclear on details such as ammo carry etc., or may not remember what they were told about it.

Having this printout with you may save time if there's a question. I know this firsthand, as I was delayed for some time once, while a counter rep rustled up a supervisor to confirm to her what I already knew (and was telling her).

I suppose someone with bad intent could edit said printout, and a really gun-wary counter agent could say so and not accept it at face value; that said, it can't hurt to print out their policies and bring it along.
 
It is NOT TSA or the airlines that are the problem.
It is the port authority police who have their OWN interpretation of the Firearm Owners Protection Act.
Getting caught for ANY reason overnight can cause a whole world of problems.
 
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