Cheney: War critics "dishonest" & "reprehensible".

[jcoiii]

WMD = more than just nuclear......



I found, by chance, this interview given by a purported weapons inspector. I say purported because every bit of news or information we get today cannot be absolutely trusted. So, you can believe one side or the other. Rhetoric after the fact from one side who hates the other is not sufficient for a basis of fact.

Editted b/c the link wasn't working. Grrr.

 

[RealGun]

The American people are incapable of enduring any sort of pain any more, political, economic, anything.

I think of it as them having long ago losing interest after the shock and awe was over and the news reports were no longer entertaining. It is more an issue of war as entertainment and retribution than it is of "pain". They have moved on from experiencing the Iraq invasion as a transference of post 9/11 outrage. They would not have been particularly interested or supportive had it not been for 9/11, so it was very convenient to try to make a connection.

I believe we belong in Iraq, but I will not say that the sales pitch was entirely above board. It was a sales pitch, caveat emptor.

 

[NavyDoc]

javafiend

I suggest that when you look for referances to support your position you use sources other than left leaning news organizations.

To be fair, I'm sure anyone who desperately wants to believe Bush lied can find several reports, memmos, documents, etc.. to support their claim. Just as those who want to follow Bush to what ever end can find the same to support their position.

I ask you, If bush knew there were no WMD's and that every fact he used could be prooved wrong, why in the world would he go to war in Iraq?

The simple fact that you have all those articles (written over the course of several months) at hand and ready to referance tells me you are a busy beaver and very interested in seeking the truth. Could you please quickly respond with as many articles countering the argument that Bush lied?

I would hate to believe you are here at THR as a troll. But I'm sure you will prove me wrong by responding as quickly with all the pro Bush articles you researched in your search for the truth.

Regards,

Javafiend "searcher for truth?"

 

[Old Dog]

The American people are incapable of enduring any sort of pain any more, political, economic, anything.

I strongly disagree. While TheEgg may may trumpet his opinion of his countrymen, I prefer to believe in the resiliency, resourcefulness and capabilities of our people. We'll get through this spell.

Frankly, those who wish to believe that the administration lied to get the U.S. into Iraq remind me of the jurors in the O.J. Simpson trial, who decided to believe that several hundred members of the LAPD, LA emergency services workers and the LA DA's office all manufactured evidence in an attempt to frame O.J. for a double homicide.

 

[Manedwolf]

I am sorry for the heated rhetoric but every single thread about the war is filled with people ignoring what really happened at the time and repeating the Bush lied people died mantra.

We had just been attacked by a middle east group that had widespread support across the whole middle east. To ignore Saddam or let the UN handle him would have been the highth of irresponsibility at our own peril.

1. We were attacked by al-Quaeda, based mostly in Afghanistan, headed by Osama bin Laden. NOT IRAQ. Repeat. NOT IRAQ.

2. Osama is still alive. Five years later. Afghanistan, the Taliban ARE STILL fighting back against US forces. Didn't finish the job there.

3. Attacked Iraq. WHICH WAS NOT A THREAT at the time. NO WMDs. Repeating that as well...NO WMDs. Where's those photos they had that showed where they were for certain, hm?

4. We had the goodwill of the world after 9/11. That's GONE now. Now, after Abu Ghraib, et al, we're the bad guys.

5. Aren't YOU sick yet of Bush being a broken record and even mentioning 9/11 in Katrina response speeches? How about using Veteran's Day to not even attend a single WWII/Korea/etc...thing, but instead to use the day for partisan political speeches saying it was 'bad' to criticize or even question his decisions? How un-American was that?

Attacking Iraq because 'a middle east group' attacked us would be like someone attacking the US because 'someone in the Americas' based in, say, Guatamala, attacked them.

And personally, I feel the only people ignoring facts are generally those who can't see ANYTHING but their own party loyalty. Not the overwhelming conclusion that's getting more and more apparent..which are that yes, the administration DID cook and cherry-pick the intelligence they were given to favor a pre-existing agenda. And went to war when it didn't need to, getting 2000 troops killed to establish an...islamic republic. Uh..yay?

 

[TheEgg]

RealGun has an interesting alternative explanation to mine -- I will think about that.

I prefer to believe in the resiliency, resourcefulness and capabilities of our people. We'll get through this spell.

I really hope that I am wrong and Old Dog's more optimistic view will prove to be true. But I doubt it.

 

[scottgun]

Attacking Iraq because 'a middle east group' attacked us would be like someone attacking the US because 'someone in the Americas' based in, say, Guatamala, attacked them.

It would be like attacking a ruthless dictator in Germany when we were bombed by the Japanese.

The previous administration had the same intelligence information and drew the same conclusions. Prior to the war both parties saw this information and made the decision to attack Iraq. Sadam refused to allow weapon inspectors to facilities and had plenty of time to move in the lead up to war. You've got all your talking points down, but repeating them over and over doesn't make them true.

 

[Manedwolf]

"Darth Cheney Strikes Back!"

"American soldiers and Marines are out there every day in dangerous conditions and desert temperatures -- conducting raids, training Iraqi forces, countering attacks, seizing weapons, and capturing killers -- and back home a few opportunists are suggesting they were sent into battle for a lie," Cheney said.

Copyright © 2005 Reuters Limited.

Yeah, all that "harsh realities of combat" is stuff that ol' "Five Deferrments" Cheney would really be familiar with, right?

 

[Manedwolf]

You've got all your talking points down, but repeating them over and over doesn't make them true.

Ought to tell Scott McClellan that one!

BTW, here's an article excerpt from 2003 to reminisce about:

"Mr. Wolfowitz, the deputy defense secretary, opened a two-front war of words on Capitol Hill, calling the recent estimate by Gen. Eric K. Shinseki of the Army that several hundred thousand troops would be needed in postwar Iraq, "wildly off the mark." Pentagon officials have put the figure closer to 100,000 troops."

Guess Rummy never read Sun Tzu.

 

[scottgun]

Ought to tell Scott McClellan that one!

It seems like both sides have perfected this art. Too bad an "honest debate" is out of the question at this point, its all political mud slinging now, again, from both sides.

 

[Manedwolf]

It seems like both sides have perfected this art. Too bad an "honest debate" is out of the question at this point, its all political mud slinging now, again, from both sides.

I'll agree with that. My take on the matter is that the PNAC neocon cabal are engaged in trying to cover their own asses, the true conservatives have been silenced or sidelined, and the Democrats are being spineless jellyfish about it all. Aside from a few possibly too-little-too-late bits like what Chuck Hagel just said, I'm disgusted with the lot of them.

Enough corruption. Enough politics. Enough cover-your-ass-if-you-cover-mine. Enough obfuscation. And using Veteran's Day for partisan sniping, that WAS shameful of Bush to do that. I was stunned. Anyone on either side really should see that. I recall that day being one of things like WWII warbirds flying over DC in a missing-man formation, of elderly vets in their VFW caps being simply told "Thank you" by a commander-in-chief and ceremonies at Arlington. That was just wrong. I'd say that no matter what party the president at the time was.

I think the American people, and especially the troops deserve CLEAR answers to things. Not muddled constant moving of the goalposts and fuzzy "I didn't know I knew that when I knew I didn't know what I knew." crap.

 

[Camp David]

I love Cheney , he really knows how to get the leftists(defeatists) howling at the moon!

VP Cheney seems easy to understand and clear; I believe the Democrats are being traitors and should be charged as such during wartime... such actions as they are engaging in, while we have troops in harms way, makes them guilty... it would be nice to charge a few Democrats and put them away!

 

[Biker]

VP Cheney seems easy to understand and clear; I believe the Democrats are being traitors and should be charged as such during wartime... such actions as they are engaging in, while we have troops in harms way, makes them guilty... it would be nice to charge a few Democrats and put them away!

Although no Democrat, I have recently left the Repulican party. My question to you is, at what point do we suspend the right to Free Speech? When do we stop asking important questions? If your post was meant in jest, sorry.
Biker

 

[grampster]

I have appreciated the views of Old Dog and The Egg in the past. (I would appreciate Old Dog more if he would give me the keys to the cabin in the UP,heh) What they say here is not as contradictory as it may seem. I think both viewpoints have merit. The general public has a short attention span thus both opinions are valid. We are like a flag blowing in the wind as a people. That is probably because leadership, public and private, in these days seem to not be providing leadership, only obsfuscation and demagoguery on the one hand and obfuscation and greedy manipulation on the other. I think as a people we may have become optimistic pessimists. We want things to go right, but we just can't believe it can happen; so we waffle.

I think we need to be more careful about what we believe, both on the Right and the Left. Trouble is, the media, the venue that is supposed to cut through all the BS and provide us with access to the truth, has chosen sides and all we get from them is more of the above.

 

[Manedwolf]

VP Cheney seems easy to understand and clear; I believe the Democrats are being traitors and should be charged as such during wartime... such actions as they are engaging in, while we have troops in harms way, makes them guilty... it would be nice to charge a few Democrats and put them away!

Dude, if that isn't meant to be humorous sarcasm, you need to start practicing stiffarm salutes and working on your singing voice for official state propaganda songs to be broadcast in the mornings.

The right to dissent is one of the things all those guys in the 1770's fought for, you know? It's one of the main reasons the revolution STARTED.

 

[Manedwolf]

I think we need to be more careful about what we believe, both on the Right and the Left. Trouble is, the media, the venue that is supposed to cut through all the BS and provide us with access to the truth, has chosen sides and all we get from them is more of the above.

I think all we get from the corporate media now (and both Hamilton and Lincoln WARNED about corporations!)...is fluff infotainment that tips in whatever direction will get more ratings.

 

[ghost squire]

Oh wow. You guys are hilarious.

You cannot sit there and tell me you didn't know deep down that Saddam had chemical weapons, at the very least. He used them to kill thousands of Iranian soldiers, and his own people! Do you think he didn't hide them before we invaded?



Comeon now thats a whole hell of a lot of sand to dig through.

That said, what are you guys smoking? For you anti war people, heres a little advice: its a red damned herring!

Chew on this: If Bush did know where they were, would he say? No, think about it, its keeping millions of his opponents occupied, thinking where and not WHY. My guess is that we will suddenly discover piles of chemical and biological weapons just before his term is up, or perhaps never. Maybe when his successor takes his place.

Say he reveals where they are just this day. What would happen? Liberals would have to insert foot in mouth for a while, then what? They would stop being befuddled by the details and take a look at the big picture, start doing some credible research.

Most anti-war people are like rabid little dogs, barking this and that and taking hold and never letting go of every issue they can get a hold of. You truly aren't worthy adversaries, and I'm rather disappointed. Heres some advice that I hope will liven things up: Stop foaming at the mouth, making fools of yourselves about idiotic red herrings like Scooter Libby, sit back and smoke a cigar. Look at what is really going on, bide your time and strike when you have a overwhelming plethora of damning information.

 

[Camp David]

The right to dissent is one of the things all those guys in the 1770's fought for, you know? It's one of the main reasons the revolution STARTED.

Dissent is not what the Democrats are doing now; they are traitorous or treasonous to the nation while it is at war, and putting the troops at war in greater danger. The leading Democrats, guilty of treason at very least, should be arrested.

By the way, the Constitution refers to Treason this way: "Deserting your allegiance or duty to leader or cause or principle." Based on that definition and wartime powers, the President should arrest a few leading Democrats right now!

 

[Camp David]

at what point do we suspend the right to Free Speech?

See my post above Biker: Dissent under Free Speech is not what the Democrats are doing now; they are traitorous or treasonous to the nation while it is at war, and putting the troops at war in greater danger. The leading Democrats, guilty of treason at very least, should be arrested.

 

[jcoiii]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/index.html

Try this one. This is the report from/by (not sure which) the Director of the CIA. I have not read nearly all of this.

This report relays the findings of the Special Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence on Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction.

The files comprising the PDF edition of this 1,000-page report are extremely large and, in practice, available only to visitors who have a broadband connection. The HTML edition is available to all, regardless of connection speed.

Above are the first lines on the webpage.

 

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

Bush could have justified going into Iraq without having to lie, if he had simply said Iraq was in violation of the cease fire agreement, which clearly they were. But this wasnt good enough for him. He chose to play up the WMD angle, thinking it would get more support.

Ya know...he could ahve done that and gotten away with it in the post september 11 hysteria.

I supported the decision to go to war...nukes in NYC? VX in El Paso? Thats some scary stuff. But there hasn't been anything.

Like a kid at christmas, I wanted to see what daddy had brought home from the WMD store...but turns out the shelves were empty. Also like a kid on christmas who wanted a pony and got a pencil, I am not happy. I don't believe in santa no mo. You want my vote on something other than Osama's head on stake????

Gimme the pony.

 

[PaulV]

Link deleted. Information is discussed in another thread.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I disagree with almost everything the Democrats do, but protesting this war is not treason in my opinion, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dangerous person who does not value our way of life..

 

[Old Dog]

Lone Gunman said

protesting this war is not treason in my opinion, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dangerous person who does not value our way of life..

and, I agree that protesting the war is not treason ... but -- having now been deployed over there 3 times -- I cannot abide those who protest the war, who have not been there and have no idea of what's going on over there other than what they've learned from the mainstream media or (gasp) the internet. This kind of protest is not treason, simply stupid and meaningless...

 

[ghost squire]

It may not be treason but it hurts America, and hurts all the people we are helping over there, and helps all our enemies.