Cheney: War critics "dishonest" & "reprehensible".

[GoRon]

Show me the Bush administration claiming that Saddam was behind 9/11.

+1

Any time you include comments about Iraq and comments about terrorism in the same post somebody jumps up and says Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

They want to argue tactics and miss the strategy. The left is reactionary, go after terrorists after the fact (or maybe not, depends how it polls). This administration to their credit has taken the initiative and brought the fight to the terrorists nieghborhood. A modern, succesful and relativily free Iraq is a bigger threat to the wahhabists than the US.

 

[RealGun]

of course deferments are granted for legitimate reasons. However, don't request 5 and then call a combat vet a coward. It's kinda hard on the credibility of Mr Deferment...
Biker

I hope you can see that you are still saying that deferment equates to cowardice.

 

[Biker]

I hope you can see that you are still saying that deferment equates to cowardice.

Christ man... read my posts and take them in context. Oh, and try being intellectually honest. I'm saying that Cheney, who requested and was granted five deferments because he stated, and I paraphrase, that ' I had better things to do with my life', has no right to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward.
Additionally, address the rest of my contentions if you can, or will.
Otherwise, you'd do yourself a favor by putting vice-grips on your typing fingers at this point.
Biker

 

[RealGun]

Otherwise, you'd do yourself a favor by putting vice-grips on your typing fingers at this point.

I can see that as a wise choice.

 

[Biker]

I can see that as a wise choice.

Ah, grasshoppah...finally you see.

Biker

 

[GoRon]

has no right to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward.

Those that never served are still capable of being brave and those that served are capable of acts of cowardice.

I suspect if we polled all the Marine Colonel's alive they would have a different view of how to procede than Mr.Murtha.

 

[Biker]

Those that never served are still capable of being brave and those that served are capable of acts of cowardice.

I am suspect if we polled all the Marine Colonel's alive they would have a different view of how to procede than Mr.Murtha.

Could be you're right, Friend, but Murtha has been tested and proven. I would venture to guess that Mr '5 deferment-I have better things to do with my life' Cheney hasn't. Who is he to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward?

Cheney. Hasn't. Earned. The. Right.

Biker

 

[gc70]

by Biker:
I'm saying that Cheney... has no right to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward.

Can anyone post a link to ANY news article that quotes Cheney as calling Murtha a coward?

I have not seen any factual evidence of the above charge. What I have seen are people reaching conclusions based on their predisposition to negatively interpret what you think Cheney might have meant when he said something else.

If there is a factual case, cite the evidence. If not, quit making things up.

BTW, Cheney's "dishonest and reprehensible" comments were about people who want to rewrite history by ignoring facts and just making things up.

 

[grampster]

And how has Murtha earned the right to say that we have and are making "no progress" in Iraq in this day and this time? He is credible to speak for his generation and his duty. But he discredits our present warriors and puts them in harms way by speaking words that are not true. I'm too old to be a soldier, but in my business I am personally acquainted with multiple dozens of sons and daughters of customers, customers, and sons and daughters of friends and neighbors who have and are involved in multiple tours of duty in A'stan and Iraq. I have spoken with them myself. I have watched the burial of two from my area, one a local firefighter and another a fine young man. They have had boots on the ground and what they say does not square with his political balderdash. Mr. Murtha is representative of the Lesson of Vietnam: America is a paper tiger. He has become a toady to dangerous minority of power seekers.

Murtha is full of condensed HorseS***! and he should be ashamed of himself for his cruel, insensitive characterizing of the mission that is succeeding. He is an old fool with a heroic past. Rather than stand on his medals, he should step back and think twice about the company he keeps and the advice he listens to. He owes our brave fighters an apology.

I don't give a rat's behind what he thinks of the president or his policies, but his words and actions the last few day are a disgrace to the uniform he proudly wore.

 

[Phyphor]

Could be you're right, Friend, but Murtha has been tested and proven. I would venture to guess that Mr '5 deferment-I have better things to do with my life' Cheney hasn't. Who is he to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward?

Cheney. Hasn't. Earned. The. Right.

Biker

Well, money talks, and as much as Mr. 5D's got, I'd imagine he thinks he's pretty much bulletproof.

It just goes to show what depth of character we have to look up to.

 

[Warbow]

Could be you're right, Friend, but Murtha has been tested and proven. I would venture to guess that Mr '5 deferment-I have better things to do with my life' Cheney hasn't. Who is he to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward?

Cheney. Hasn't. Earned. The. Right.

Uh, what are you talking about? Cheney never called Murtha a coward.

 

[javafiend]

DocZinn wrote:

Show me the Bush administration claiming that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Here you go.

Vice President Dick Cheney said that success in stabilizing and democratizing Iraq would strike a major blow at the "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9-11."

And Tuesday, in an interview on ABC's "Nightline," White House national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said that one of the reasons Mr. Bush went to war against Saddam was because he posed a threat in "a region from which the 9-11 threat emerged."

Bush, 9/11 and Iraq—a policy founded on deception

Speaking from the White House Sunday night, Bush made no less than six references to the September 11 attacks, repeatedly asserting that the bloodshed in Iraq is necessary to prevent new terrorist actions. “Since America put out the fires of September 11, and mourned our dead, and went to war, history has taken a different turn,” declared Bush. “We have carried the fight to the enemy. We are rolling back the terrorist threat to civilization, not on the fringes of its influence, but at the heart of its power.”

Later he added: “We are fighting the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities,” Bush declared.

On 26 September 2002 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said there was ‘bulletproof evidence’ of an Al-Qaeda-Saddam link.”

After the 9-11 Commission published its report dismissing claims that Saddam and Al Qaeda were allies, Cheney went on the offensive, declaring that the “evidence is overwhelming” of cooperation between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda.

Bush, for his part, mustered the following unassailable argument: “The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and Al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda.” He added, “There’s numerous contacts between the two,” but gave only one example—a series of exchanges in 1994 when bin Laden sought the use of facilities in Iraq and Saddam Hussein rebuffed him.

On 18 March 2003 Bush sent a letter to Congress with the declaration that the use of force against Iraq “is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.”

Bush Continues the "Big Lie" in the Face of Mountains of Contrary Evidence

Furthermore, in the past, President Bush has stated that the relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq was much closer than the two organizations holding meetings. For example, in the May 2003, announcement that major combat operations were over, he said, “the liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We’ve removed an ally of Al Qaeda.” And in the State of the Union address in January 2003: “Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaeda.” The last statement appears to refer to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who the president claimed was a senior Al Qaeda operative living in Baghdad and working with the Iraqi government. But according to the New York Times, George Tenet, the now retiring Director of the CIA, admitted that Zarqawi did not work with the Iraqi government and was not under the direction of Al Qaeda.

The commission’s conclusion of no “collaborative relationship” directly contradicts President Bush’s very specific allegation that, “Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with Al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided Al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training.” Numerous sources, in addition to the 9/11 panel, have shown those allegations to be untrue.

So the 9/11 commission has merely confirmed what those without naiveté had suspected all along: the Bush administration lied and misled America into a needless imperial pet project that has killed thousands of innocent Iraqis and hundreds of U.S. military personnel. The amazing part is that the administration continues to claim that its Goebbels-like “big lie” propaganda is true after all, no matter how much evidence amasses to the contrary.

The president and vice president are calling a few meetings between members of the Al Qaeda terrorist group and Iraqi government officials a “relationship” between "allies." By that standard, the US government has a "relationship" with its "ally," North Korea.


Bush and Cheney are both lying bastards.

 

[MikeyBee]

I served in order to protect the right of people to say crappy things about people who say crappy things.

We can go round and round on this all day.

 

[gc70]

Very interesting research sources, JavaFiend: CBS News; the World Socialist Website; and the Media Monitors Network.

The names of the first two sources speak for themselves, but I frankly admit to never having previously heard of the Media Monitors Network. MMN appears to be some sort of cooperative news blog, with some intriguing stories, including:

Invading Iraq to Appease Bin Laden by Ahmed Amr
It now appears that appeasing Bin Laden was a major part of the neo-con sales pitch to the White House...

Claims of Saddam's Genocide Far from Proven by Robin Miller
Is it really true that Saddam Hussein "gassed his own people" while committing genocide against Iraqi Kurds, images that have become woven into the fabric of the American perception of Iraq? .... Only someone who wanted to be deceived would consider this adequate proof of genocide.

 

[Old Dog]

At last -- Javafiend quits posting links to old stories and actually expresses his true feelings ...

Bush and Cheney are both lying bastards.

 

[DRZinn]

It's been proven that there was alink between Hussein and Al Quaeda; it's not even been asserted that there was a link between Hussein and 9/11. Look at the information you posted, javafiend.

 

[javafiend]

It's been proven that there was alink between Hussein and Al Quaeda;

It's been proven that there's a "link" between Javafiend and DocZinn.
They communicated via an internet website.

 

[javafiend]

To this day we keep hearing that supposedly "everybody" or "virtually everbody" agreed with Bush and Cheney's statements regarding Iraq's "vast stockpile" of WMD.

The claim is bunk. There was considerable disagreement.

During the same time period in which Cheney and Rumsfeld were running around claiming that there was "no doubt" that "Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction"* and "chemical and biological weapons,"** their own intelligence experts were telling them something different.

U.S. News & World Report in its June 9, 2003 edition revealed the existence of a September 2002 intelligence analysis by the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) titled "Iraq: Key Weapons Facilities -- An Operational Support Study." This DIA report stated that "there is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons, or whether Iraq has -- or will -- establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."

This DIA assesssment noted that "a substantial amount of Iraq's chemical warfare agents, precursors, munitions, and production equipment were destroyed between 1991 and 1998 as a result of Operation Desert Storm and UNSCOM actions."

The report speculated that Iraq "probably possesses [chemical weapons] in chemical munitions, but that "we lack any direct information" on thsi subject.

That's a far cry from Cheney's claim that "there is no doubt."

See Data didn't back Bush claims on Iraqi weapons, officials say



* Cheney, 26 August 2002: "Simply stated, there's no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

** Rummy, 7 January 2003: "There is no doubt in my mind that that they currently have chemical and biological weapons."

 

[NorthernExtreme]

Javafiend,

If I had to go to the World Socialist Website to validate my opinion, I would quickly look for professional (Psychological) help as soon as I could.

The Socialists are not your/our friend Javafiend. Good luck, I hope you feel better soon!

Regards,

 

[TheEgg]

I like it when he quotes Chomsky!

Suicide by keyboard!

 

[DRZinn]

It's been proven that there's a "link" between Javafiend and DocZinn.
They communicated via an internet website.

Yeah, you're right, that's the same thing as the link between Saddam and Al Quaeda.

 

[Ezekiel]

Yeah, you're right, that's the same thing as the link between Saddam and Al Quaeda.

Sorry, no (your sarcasm aside). The link between DocZinn and Javafiend is far more substantial and credible...:banghead:

 

[DRZinn]

The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements.

The fall of Baghdad has produced new evidence to buttress the Bush administration's prewar contention that Saddam Hussein's regime and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda had a long history of contacts.

Documents found in Baghdad show a link between Saddam Hussein's fallen regime and al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden, according to a UK newspaper.

And it goes on and on.

 

[NavyDoc]

Christ man... read my posts and take them in context. Oh, and try being intellectually honest. I'm saying that Cheney, who requested and was granted five deferments because he stated, and I paraphrase, that ' I had better things to do with my life', has no right to call a decorated combat vet, a Marine Col, a coward.
Additionally, address the rest of my contentions if you can, or will.
Otherwise, you'd do yourself a favor by putting vice-grips on your typing fingers at this point.
Biker

Where did Cheney call COL Murtha a coward? IIR, a representative from Ohio was passing on a message from a USMC COL in Iraq, who implied that COL Murtha was a coward...perhaps reminding him of what it means to be a Marine. If anyone has a right to call a USMC COL a coward, it's ANOTHER USMC COL!

 

[Biker]

Where did Cheney call COL Murtha a coward? IIR, a representative from Ohio was passing on a message from a USMC COL in Iraq, who implied that COL Murtha was a coward...perhaps reminding him of what it means to be a Marine. If anyone has a right to call a USMC COL a coward, it's ANOTHER USMC COL!

If I'm mistaken concerning the VP's use of the word "coward", I stand corrected or, as some of the fancier folks around here say, MEA CULPA!

Biker