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Chicago commuter train detained, passengers searched by police with auto weapons...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by wig, Jan 14, 2009.

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  1. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    Just for the heck of it, I did a quick search on monetary damages and Terry stops. Here's the 1st case that pops up:

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=2nd&navby=case&no=969133

    The appeals court upheld the whopping $1 in damages. I am guessing the the less whopping 33 cents in attorney fees comes from an agreement where the attorney would take 1/3 of the settlement. That made me laugh, probably unfairly. :)

    Mike
     
  2. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    This is not a Chicago problem. And I have more reason to hate Chicago then most people here. If you think the same incident wouldn't have had the same result anywhere else in this day and age you are kidding yourself. This would have happened on any commuter line in the country. The authorities aren't going to take any chances with possible terrorist events.
     
  3. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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  4. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    We were talking about the CHICAGO PD. A mere unlawful Terry frisk wouldn't be enough for them. They'd HAVE to do something malicious AND stupid, probably false arrest and excessive force in front of witnesses at a minimum. Anything else would be like expecting a great white shark to subsist on broccoli.
     
  5. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    I think that you have to be dead to collect that one.

    Have you found any illegal "Terry stop" suits that ended up with more than $1 in damages?

    In the one I cited, the appeals court even let the 33 cents in attorney fees stand - that's cold.

    It may be hard to find an attorney who's willing to take on a case for those kinds of damages. :)

    Mike
     
  6. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Member

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    I don't know about the legality of that, but I do know for sure that it is illegal to detain a trainful of people, and search them without cause (individually). One guy saying something doesn't make cause to detain and search an entire trainful, even in a "post 9/11 world" so long as 9/11 didn't void the bill of rights.
     
  7. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    You can search the Sun-Times and Tribune websites and find all of the settlements and awards you want. Karolyna Obrycka's going buy her own village in Poland.

    Of course we weren't talking about a "Terry stop", since NONE of the people were in ANY circumstances which would come within a million miles of justifying one, even badly excusing an illegal one.
     
  8. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    There are some very big settlements in the paper from time to time - but none that remotely match the circumstances described in the OP.

    If the police severely beat you on video while drunk or kill you, you may get a big award.

    But an illegal Terry stop still looks like it might get you $1, and a big quarter, a nickle, and 3 and 1/3 pennies for your lawyer. Good luck on that one. And that's only if you win. The lawyers will be knocking down your door for that kind of money.

    Uh, if the "Terry stop" was legal, you wouldn't get anything, because it was, well ... legal.

    Mike
     
  9. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    I don't blame the cops at all. I blame the legislators that are forcing cops to be a force against "terrorism". This is a rediculous burden to place on our police departments, especially if we expect them to do normal police work as well.
     
  10. bratch

    bratch Member

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    Adding this event to my ever growing list of reasons to avoid public transportation.
     
  11. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    i wonder how many bags of weed got tossed or flushed. sometimes searches have funny consequences when we had vips at a hotel i worked at the secret service would screen staff through a metal detector. they found lots of beer in purses
     
  12. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    I had a client show up for court on the one and only occasion I know of when a certain distant rural courthouse happened to have the metal detectors up and manned. The fool had a folding knife on him -- which was the least of his problems, as they were searching bags and he was crazy enough to be holding dope (probably) in court. He denied it, to me and to everyone else, but it isn't everyone who panics and takes off running when he sees the searchers. Heck, around here lots of people get their knives confiscated (and usually returned later) at the courthouse door.

    Then there was the woman at the airport whose (comically enormous) marital aid started buzzing and shaking inside her bag while she stood in line at the security checkpoint.
     
  13. Erik

    Erik Member

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    So a USSS Special Agent, unfamiliar with and trying to comply with railway proceedures, volunteered who he was and that he was armed, asked how to proceed, and when ultimately the railway personnel he encountered determined that there was a proceedural infraction the local police was contacted, who in turn detained the train and its passengers until things where sorted out? Do I have that correct?

    It could have been sorted out much better all around, regardless of which version of events are taken as acurate.

    Which why folks allowed to carry everywhere should do so and worry about security measures as they are encountered.
     
  14. Nathanael_Greene

    Nathanael_Greene Member

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    To me, the saddest part is that someone overheard (only partially, I'm sure; I used to ride those trains daily) a mention of a gun and couldn't wait to rat the guy out.

    When we did we become so eager to sell one another out?
     
  15. makarovnik

    makarovnik Member

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    I wonder what the law is about being searched, when and where and under what circumstances you have to comply.

    I know those AR-15's are scary but I would tend to decline especially if I wasn't positively ID'd by another passenger or if I didn't match the description of the "suspect".

    Searching everyone? No frick'n way. That's very uncool!
     
  16. mike101

    mike101 Member

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    I didn't think this could have been Chicago. When you call 911 in Chicago, nobody answers the phone.
     
  17. DocBoCook

    DocBoCook Member

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    No, this particular searching everyone is by definition, unnecessary. But they wanna sweep and see how much dope or whatever they can. I swear, I heard more wrongful death judgements in Chicago than drug busts while I lived north of there. And I remember USSS being allowed to carry on my Navy base (which we aren't even allowed to do) while they attended an EMT course I taught.:banghead:
     
  18. jimsmith80

    jimsmith80 Member

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    Where was that train on the way to Dachu? (sorry for spelling)
    That was one stupid Secret Service Agent they should have just gotten on and IF there was a metal deteor then show the badge, thats why they give you a badge. Dumb Bastard.
    I am not an Obama fan, but I hope to god for the sake of the country that, that nit-wit is not on the presidential detail. I mean really, hey what's this badge thing for, Wait, wait don't shoot officer!!!! That agent should be re-assianed to gaurd the baby seals against global warming in alaska.
     
  19. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    There is precedent to suggest that SCOTUS wants to see more monetary damages and less suppression of evidence.

    In Hudson v. Michigan, 547 U. S. 586 (2006), Scalia wrote that the "increasing professionalism" (his words, not mine) and the increase in the number of public-interest law firms and civil rights lawyers means that it is more appropriate to challenge unlawful searches in a civil suit than in an exclusionary hearing.

    Scalia further said that "[w]e cannot assume that exclusion in this context is necessary deterrence simply because we found that it was necessary deterrence in different contexts and long ago. That would be forcing the public today to pay for the sins and inadequacies of a legal regime that existed almost half a century ago," and "[t]he cost of entering this lottery [of claiming evidence was gained unlawfully] would be small, but the jackpot enormous: suppression of all evidence, amounting in many cases to a get-out-of-jail-free card."

    In other words, Scalia--along with four others--doesn't see a need to give the State a credible check on its power. Raise your hands if you're surprised.
     
  20. Rifleman 173

    Rifleman 173 Member

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    This story has GOT to be fiction. Chicago is the most anti-gun bastion in the world. King Richard Daley doesn't allow any peasant, serfs and peons to own, use, carry or possess any guns anywhere near Chicago.
     
  21. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    What was the cost of that little event? $10,000? Seems like the need some MBA's over at the police desk...
     
  22. Top_Notch

    Top_Notch Member

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    Not everyone from IL is so brainwashed, but be careful as to not spook the sheep by speaking and/or acting out. I also work for RR Donnelley and couldn't agree more about the boring part (I could go on). We hang no gun signs on the entrance doors and the sheeple feel safer.
     
  23. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    As a followup to my previous post, the Supreme Court just ruled that evidence gained from an illegal search that results from "negligence ... rather than systematic error or reckless disregard of constitutional requirements" no longer justifies suppression.

    In other words, if the cops can plausibly claim incompetence, their antics can be used against you.
     
  24. wep45

    wep45 Member

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    guns?.........what guns............just as long as you dont mess with my cheetos:cool:
     
  25. cane

    cane Member

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    Did you notice they were looking for a "man" with a gun, but searched everyone.
     
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