Expert offers teachers free weapons training

Status
Not open for further replies.

Desertdog

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
1,980
Location
Ridgecrest Ca
Expert offers teachers free weapons training
'Guns cause shootings like cameras cause pornography'
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55436


The mad homicidal rampages in American schools will halt when attackers find out that faculty and students sometimes are armed and trained to use those weapons effectively, so an expert in the defensive use of guns is offering free training to educators.

"In our country, every time a misguided individual on psychiatric drugs goes on a killing spree, anti-self defense legislators watch the polls and exploit the dead victims in order to fool the public into accepting more gun control," said Ignatius Piazza, founder of Front Sight Firearms Training Institute.

"It is time our country finds some resolve and the will to tackle the real problem – which is rooting out the actual influences in the lives of our youth that predispose them to commit atrocities such as those we saw at Virginia Tech," he said.

"The problem is not guns. Guns don't cause these incidents to occur any more than cameras cause child pornography or automobiles cause traffic fatalities," he said. "Society is safer when we train and arm our law abiding citizens."

His feelings are so strong on the subject he's launched a two-part campaign: to honor the heroes of the Virginia Tech massacre and to make sure that defensive firearms training is available to those who will be in a position to halt the next one.

In the Virginia Tech attack, Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major and native of South Korea, took two handguns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition on his rampage. He killed 32 others, and himself.

In this case, and others like it, the issue has been raised about how an attacker is able to kill so many, and what would it take for someone to fight back against such aggression. There also are random arguments that there should be more restrictions on guns and gun ownership.

But Virginia Tech's own experience with shootings should have made the solution clear:

As WND reported, five years before this latest shooting, on Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, a 43-year-old student from Nigeria, walked into the offices of Law School Dean Anthony Sutin, 42, and professor Thomas Blackwell, 41, and opened fire with a .380 ACP semi-automatic handgun – shooting them at close range.

Also killed in the same building was student Angela Denise Dales, 33. Three others were wounded.

But as soon as the gunfire erupted, two students acting independently of one another, Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross, ran to their vehicles to retrieve firearms. Gross, an off-duty police officer in his home state of North Carolina, got his 9mm pistol and body armor. Bridges got out his .357 Magnum.

They approached Odighizuwa from different angles, and Bridges yelled for him to drop his weapon and the shooter was subdued by several unarmed students. Gross went back to his car and got handcuffs to detain the shooter until police arrived.

To address the next attack that will come up, Piazza is offering free firearms training (for up to three people from any school) to any school administrator, teacher or fulltime staff member designated as school safety monitor.

"My offer is not a new idea. In the early 70's, Israel was faced with much greater problems of armed terrorist attacks on schools. The cry for more gun control was heard then too, but Israel very carefully analyzed all possible options before adopting the proactive position of arming and training their teachers. School shootings stopped and terrorists looked for easier targets."

Dave Clark, who retired a short time ago after teaching for 25 years in Livermore, Calif., and has attended First Sight training, said such education is needed for teachers.

"I learned universally accepted rules in justifiable use of deadly force," he said. "More importantly, I learned when not to shoot and how to be more mentally prepared to see a lethal confrontation coming before it happens in order to avoid it."

"It seems obvious that armed and trained staff members inside the school are in a better position to identify the attackers and do something immediately to resolve the situation. It is much harder for police, who arrive on the scene too late to stop the killing," Piazza said.

He cited a case in Pearl, Miss., when a vice principal used a handgun to stop and detain an armed killer.

"Teachers will be trained to carry a concealed weapon, so potential attackers will not know which teachers are armed and which are not. In states that have adopted concealed weapon laws for private citizens, violent crime has dropped. School attacks will drop as well once it is known that any of the teachers and staff members on school grounds have the ability and training to stop a violent attack immediately," he said.

He also said laws banning guns on campuses need changing. None of them, Piazza noted, prevented the two shooters at Columbine, or Cho at Virginia Tech, from bringing weapons onto campus. "The brazen attacks in school after school during the last decade indicate criminals have concluded that 'Gun-Free-School-Zone' actually means 'Government Certified, Helpless and Unarmed Victim Zone,'" he said.

It was just a year earlier a Virginia plan to give college students the right to carry concealed weapons was killed. Larry Hincker, Virginia Tech spokesman, said at the time, "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this helps parents, students, faculty and visitors to feel safe on our campus."

In announcing the honors for heroism during Cho's attack, Piazza said Front Sight is recognizing Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor and professor at Virginia Tech who blocked the doorway with his own body and ordered students to flee through open windows. They did and survived; he was shot and killed.

Piazza is honoring Librescu's heroism with Front Sight Firearms Training Institute "Legacy" lifetime memberships for each of those saved students.

The $8,900 memberships include training in various defense, weapons, and gun courses, Piazza said.

"Professor Librescu's actions under fire are inspiring. He gave his life to save his students. I want the Librescu family to know that such valor does not go unrecognized or unrewarded," he said.

"With Front Sight's training, Professor Librescu may rest in peace, knowing his students will have the mindset and ability to protect themselves, their loved ones, and their peers for the rest of their lives," he said. "They will never have to run in fear again."

Those in the classroom need just send Front Sight a letter from the Virginia Tech Engineering Department administrator confirming their presence in the classroom that day, he said.

"Just as Professor Librescu's experience as a Holocaust survivor burned into his character the importance of standing tall against aggression and hate, his students will forever carry the understanding that such irrational violence can happen at any time and any place," Piazza said.

In addition to the Liviu Librescu Scholarship awarded by Piazza and his institute, John Wehner, a lifetime member of Front Sight, has agreed to honor one of the other heroes.

"An amazing student at Virginia Tech held off the shooter who killed all those kids. Zach Petkewicz is his name. It seems he barricaded a door. Please find him and give him a Lifetime Legacy Membership on me! I'll even pay for his first trip to Front Sight – air fare and hotel. God bless him. He has wits about him," Wehner wrote in a letter to Front Sight.

In a report on CNN, Petkewicz said he wasn't brave, but he wasn't willing to do nothing.

Students in his classroom saw the gunman coming out of a nearby classroom. "They immediately slammed the door shut, told us, everybody kind of went into a frenzy, a panic. I hid behind the podium and then just kind of looked up at the door. Like, there's nothing stopping this guy from just coming in. And so I said, 'We need to barricade this door.'"

He described his feelings. "I was completely scared out of my mind originally, just went into a cowering position, and then just realized you have got to do something." He and others shoved a table against the door and held it there first as gunshots rang out in the hallway, then the gunman tried to force his way in.

"He … tried the handle and couldn't get in because we were pushing up against it," he said. The gunman shot twice through the door. "I just heard his clip drop to the ground, and he reloaded and I thought he was coming back … He didn't say a word, and he just turned and kept firing down the hall and didn't try to get back in."

Asked to respond to those who call him hero, he said, "I'm just glad I could be here."

Wehner said such character is what the nation needs. "If citizens in our society have the proper training, the odds will improve for the good guys in these horrible situations."

Piazza started his training school after realizing the need for expertise with weapons once when "a group of anti-socials drove through my quiet neighborhood and blasted away at everything that represented the fruits of a decent work ethic."

"I was struck by a sudden and frightening realization. Although I owned firearms and shot them regularly at the range, I was never taught the skills required to use a gun when it is needed most – to defend one's life."
 
My mom is a teacher (has been for nearly 30 years) and doesn't like guns at all, she won't go near them never has never will. I would love to hear someone try to convince her she should carry a concealed gun to school, she would rip them a new one. My dad also works at a school, although he plans to retire soon, he's not anti-gun but he would never carry one, guns don't interest him much.

Arming teachers in my opinion is a dumb idea. Hire armed school security officers, put in metal detectors, monitor troubled students, but people who suggest that teachers be armed is just going too far. Teachers need to teach and schools need to provide a secure enviornment for them to do so, there are many more options that should be considered long before even suggesting that teachers be armed. Lets look at it logically, never in a million years would teachers be issued weapons or be given the option to carry one on the job, it just won't happen.
 
My mom is a teacher (has been for nearly 30 years) and doesn't like guns at all, she won't go near them never has never will. I would love to hear someone try to convince her she should carry a concealed gun to school, she would rip them a new one.
There's a difference between listening to facts and having an adult like debate and not being open to considering the data available. Do you honestly believe you mother would be able to have an adult discussion or is her mind closed to hearing another side?

Arming teachers in my opinion is a dumb idea. Hire armed school security officers, put in metal detectors, monitor troubled students, but people who suggest that teachers be armed is just going too far.
Its a noble thought but ultimately ineffective. In this case we're talking about a college campus and metal detectors just wouldn't work at college. Then if you want to take it down to a smaller setting where its plausible, I would just suggest that the person at the metal detector will be shot first.

I'll address this with you like I'd address your mother, lets look at the data set. We've got 48 states that allow concealed carry, some have for a year, some for decades. Out of that enormous pile of data we see that permit holders have a remarkably low violent crime conviction rate. There is no logical reason to assume a permit holding teacher will be any more dangerous in a school than they would in a supermarket, their church, or the park. In fact we've even seen that an armed principal in Pearl, Miss. was able to stop a school shooting incident from continuing. There is no reason to fear people with concealed carry permits. We can't stop weapons from being smuggled into prisons, you'll never be able to stop them from being brought into schools no matter how much you want to.
 
Armed and Safe

Quote:

>Arming teachers in my opinion is a dumb idea. Hire armed school security officers........<
***********

Yes! Yes! Baaaa! Baaaa! Run and hide little sheep...baaaa baaaaa...Wait for the sheepdog! He will come and save us! Baaaa! Baaaa!

Precisely the sort of mindset that Big Brother is counting on. Can't have any of the sheep turning on the wolf. No no! That simply won't do.

How many armed "Security Officers" can your district afford to hire? It'll take one per room, plus one in the admin office, plus one in each corridor before every student can be completely protected. Do the math.

Better that all are armed than for all to be helpless.
 
Armed Teachers

Whether it sounds intuitive or not, arming teachers has worked well for Israel.

Remember, these so-called crazies have the presence of mind to attack only UNARMED concentrations of people.

They're not fixated on schools, just large barrels of fish.

Take away the "fish in a barrel" aspect, allow the fish to shoot back, the crazies will go find a different barrel.
 
Another thought

I'd also like to respond to the idea that hiring armed security guards is way better than arming teachers. I teach on a small college campus--I emphasize small, because our campus has probably around 50 buildings. If you were to look at the number of buildings and the amount of physical space that a large state University occupies, it would be much greater. How is hiring security officers going to stop something like the VT incident? Oh...wait a minute....they ALREADY HAVE their own police department....Hmm....The problem seems to be that you can't hire enough "security officers" to keep a large school/college safe. They can't be everywhere. But teachers are.

One more point. You say that arming teachers is foolish, but arming security officers is fine. What's the difference? What training have so-called security officers received that a teacher could not also receive? I bet that a 2-4 week summer program could easily prepare teachers to deal effectively with these kinds of narrowly defined incidents--not to be Rambo, not to swagger up and down the halls and look cool, but to be able to respond some other way than just standing there waiting to be shot.

I'm trying to understand your logic here. Please help me.

Thanks,
Frayluisfan
 
what!?

Arming teachers in my opinion is a dumb idea. Hire armed school security officers, put in metal detectors, monitor troubled students, but people who suggest that teachers be armed is just going too far.

It's not about "arming teachers"

Adults (over 21) who already have a ccw (as more then a few did at VT afaik)

should be able to carry in a school setting....

I don't support "arming teachers" either, they should buy their own!:neener:

Armed guards are not the solution, very expensive, plus they need breaks so really it would be two armed guards for every class?, no...4 because of shifts,

you get my drift.

people who suggest that teachers be armed is just going too far

snipped from an article by D Koppel
in Utah, there is no “gun-free schools” exception to the licensed carry law. In K-12 schools and in universities, teachers and other adults can and do legally carry concealed guns. In Utah, there has never been a Columbine-style attack on a school. Nor has there been any of the incidents predicted by self-defense opponents — such as a teacher drawing a gun on a disrespectful student, or a student stealing a teacher’s gun.



Israel uses armed teachers as part of a successful program to deter terrorist attacks on schools. Buddhist teachers in southern Thailand are following the Israeli example, because of Islamist terrorism.
 
nwilliams, what is so dumb about allowing adults to exercise their constitutional rights? Many teachers may not know anything about guns (e.g., the Stockton, California massacre where a school teacher told children to go prone as she thought Purdy was shooting over them. Those children died as Purdy ran up to them and shot them in the head (those were the only ones to die that day). The teacher later blamed the gun for her actions.

However not all teachers are ignorant regarding firearms. Teachers have stopped massacres before. They could have done it at Virginia Tech where the school security guards failed so miserably.

How effective were your school security guards at Columbine? How effective were your school security guards, the ones we saw waddling up to and then waiting outside Norris Hall, at Virginia Tech?

Arming teachers or adults in schools works. It worked in Pearl, Mississippi where a vice principal stopped a school shooting with his 1911. It worked in Virginia in 2002 where law school students stopped a massacre in progress. Its working in Israel where armed teachers protect their students in response to the massacre at Ma'alot (it was at Ma'alot where the PLO gunmen killed your school security guard and then killed the students).

As gunsmith posted, in Utah teachers can carry. Tell me all the problems they are having in Utah?
 
Campus

frayluisfan wrote:

>-I emphasize small, because our campus has probably around 50 buildings.<
************

Which brings up another point. Envision me this, Batman:

An armed guard is at the geographic center of a campus that size when Mr. Joe "I have mommy issues" Smith decides to start the show. It takes time for the guard to get the word that the curtain has gone up. Time for him to run to the building, and assuming that his intel is accurate as to WHICH building it is...which it may not be...he has to figure out which floor or which area of the building he needs to go to. He's out of breath, so he's not in top fighting mode.

He has to follow the sounds of gunfire and of people being slaughtered...carefully...so as not to place himself in deadly jeopardy. No sin in that. He's the best chance they've got. If he goes down, they all go down.

All this takes time. Time is a luxury that the victims don't have. The wolf can kill a lotta sheep in the time it takes for the guard to enter the arena...assess the situation...identify the correct target...and engage. Time.

Scenario #2.

Joe knows that the guard is there, and approximately where he'll be at 0800...people being creatures of habit...and simply walks up and takes him out before he hoists Baker. Even the most finely-tuned killing machine can be taken by ambush or surprise. Just another student scurrying to class. "Hi Joe!" "Good morning, Officer Friendly! BANG! Goodnight, Officer Friendly."
 
My mom is a teacher (has been for nearly 30 years) and doesn't like guns at all, she won't go near them never has never will.
My dad also works at a school, although he plans to retire soon, he's not anti-gun but he would never carry one, guns don't interest him much.
We are not suggesting that teachers like your mom and dad be forced to carry a firearm.

There are many teachers and students that know how to use firearms, have the training and should have the oppurtunity to be armed in school. In colleges, there now are combat troops returning to schools, LEOs in school, citizens that have worked as armed secutity guards, whom are willing and able to "serve and protect" without pay.

Which school would you attack if you were a terrorist, one with "N0 Firearms Allowed", or one where there MIGHT be one or more armed people in each room you approch.
 
As a teacher I would certainly welcome the ability to carry my weapon at work. I do not feel that anyone (including teachers) should be required to carry but I wish I and other like minded individuals were allowed to have the tools to properly protect my students.
 
re:

El Tej...Happened that way to a friend of mine too.

In the spring of 1989, WSPD Sgt Dallas Pruitt was moonlighting at a local seafood restaurant. Above and behind the place, four little pukes were watching and making plans to rob the place. Employees placed at least two of the crew inside the building about an hour before it all started. They came in to use the restroom and left.

When they came in to carry out their mission, one walked straight to Sgt. Pruitt and shot him twice...upper right chest and left bicep with a .357 Magnum. While he was on the floor, he was able to kill the shooter, and as he rolled to his side to try and limit the bleeding in his chest, he shot and wounded another one who was trying to flank him. The wounded perp later died in the hospital. The other two ran for the door, and Dallas got off another shot that missed.

He made his own 911/Officer Down call. Dallas survived his wounds...barely...but his left arm is all but useless. Dallas had to retire, and now lives at the NC coast with his wife. His son is a member of the NC State Police, and Dallas is involved with another fight for his life with pancreatic cancer. We're all afraid that he'll lose this one.

The outcry from one corner over the "Public Servant" using excessive force against the two poor, misguided, underpriveleged teen victims of society was quickly squelched, and the general concensus was good riddance to bad rubbish. As an interesting aside, armed robberies in the area dropped to nearly zero for about 6 months. I'm sure there's a lesson there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top