Chicago Tribune chimes in on .50 BMG ban

[Neo-Luddite]

Nice feeling about Chicago Tribune went away this morning. Call Senator and put on puppet show for them if needed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDITORIAL

Godzilla's gun

Published March 29, 2007


If Godzilla were a sportsman, the .50-caliber sniper rifle would be his instrument.

This is a weapon that can shoot down airplanes or helicopters from more than a mile away.



Its bullets can penetrate armored vehicles and exterior walls.

One such rifle was found in the ashes of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.

Criminals and terrorists worldwide love this weapon.

You could love it too. It's perfectly legal for anyone 18 or older in Illinois to own one.

So of what possible legitimate use could the .50-caliber weapon be, even to sportsmen lurking in the forests and glens of Illinois?

Coyote. Shooting coyote.

That's what a gun lobbyist claimed during a recent state Senate committee hearing about a measure aimed at outlawing .50-caliber sniper rifles.

Did he possibly mean . . . obliterating the state's entire coyote species with a single shot? Some sport.

There's no reason this weapon should be in the hands of anyone other than law enforcement, military or forensic specialists.

State Sen. Dan Kotowski (D-Park Ridge) has proposed legislation that would prohibit the sale, manufacture, purchase, possession or carrying of .50-caliber rifles in Illinois. Exceptions would be made for anyone who already owns such a rifle, or the aforementioned authorized users. Other exemptions provide for those who use .50-caliber rifles in shooting competitions, including the Olympics (should it ever become an event).

"The fact that supporters say it's used in hunting is a cynical attempt by the gun industry to legitimize this very dangerous weapon," Kotowski said.

This isn't the first time this legislation has been proposed in Illinois. But enough, already. Let this be the last.

The only mystery is why any legislator thinks such a monster of a weapon should be allowed, particularly in an age of terrorism.

Yet those who still need convincing on the issue include legislators who should know better: Sens. Kirk Dillard (R-Hinsdale), Dan Cronin (R-Elmhurst), Christine Radogno (R-Lemont), Michael Bond (D-Grayslake), Linda Holmes (D-Aurora), Pamela Althoff (R-McHenry), Debbie Halvorsen (D-Crete) and Matt Murphy (R-Palatine).

Please, senators. Explain how a 5-foot-long weapon that can be used to attack chemical or industrial plants is worth defending for civilian use? Explain that to your largely suburban constituents, who generally support reasonable gun control measures such as these.

There may be a handful of "sportsmen" who get their kicks by firing expensive, military-like weapons at small animals or targets. But to put their kicks before the public safety of millions makes no sense at all.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ar29,0,4724126.story?coll=chi-newsopinion-hed

 

[Neo-Luddite]

"One such rifle was found in the ashes of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas."


(my favorite line--react to THAT info as you will.)

 

[TexasRifleman]

One such rifle was found in the ashes of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.

So were several hundred pair of underwear, but I don't see what that has to do with anything either.

Did he possibly mean . . . obliterating the state's entire coyote species with a single shot? Some sport.

If you have ever owned cattle, you would not consider killing coyotes as "sport". It's not supposed to be fair.

 

[Onmilo]

Mark Westrom, President of Armalite Inc. and manufacturer of the displayed firearm reminded those present at Senator Kotowski's little brew ha-ha that the rifle on display is made by his company and has not been sold to any military organization.
He also made it abundently clear that the main purpose of the weapon is legitimate sport long range TARGET shooting.
He did not state that the main purpose of the rifle was for hunting.

It should also ne noted that a ban on any and all forms of steel core armor piercing and armor piercing incendiary ammunition has long been on the books here in Illinois.
Contrary to popular myth the lead core, zinc, brass or copper plated or jacketed rounds legally available for use in Illinois are simply not up to the task of penetrating the skin of a large aircraft or the hull of a ship or the wall of a nuclear power plant or fuel storage facility and this truth applies even to the mighty and fearful .50 caliber Browning chambered long range target rifles.

It would take a very large volume of fire to bring down a jumbo jet and even the semi automatic versions of these firearms would be hard pressed to be able to maintain the volume of fire to actually succeed in such a daunted effort.

It may be possible to take a helicopter down with one of these rifles and an extremely cool and experienced shooter.
My suggestion is that we should perhaps ban helicoptors.

Read more here.
http://www.isra.org

 

[javacodeman]

My response to the paper:

Your recent story, "Godzilla's Gun" demonstrates your total lack of knowledge about the Second Amendment, firearms' capability, and the criminal mindset.

First according to our Supreme Court, firearms that are military in nature are the very ones specifically protected by the Second Amendment (see the text here http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/miller_v_texas.txt). Furthermore, according to a recent Circuit Court decision this protection is for "the people" (see the text here http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/common/opinions/200703/04-7041a.pdf) not just the National Guard. You state in your own story that this is a gun for "...law enforcement, military or forensic specialists." So by your own words, you have (whether you wanted to or not) given reasons as to why this gun should not be banned.

Second, claims such as "This is a weapon that can shoot down airplanes or helicopters from more than a mile away," are laughable at best and outright dishonest at worst. I challenge any of you to shoot a nonmoving target with this gun half a mile away. If you would take up this challenge, you would then understand that your claim is utterly ridiculous.

Finally, I ask, "How many crimes have been committed with this gun?" This is a very expensive gun to own and to operate (the ammunition is expensive too). Why would a criminal want to buy, carry, conceal, and use a "5-foot-long weapon" when a shorter, cheaper, lighter, weapon could do all the work he needed?

Senator Kotowski asserts that this is a "very dangerous weapon." It is, but so are .22 rifles and automobiles. I know that you would like to see the ban of all firearms eventually (including the .22 rifle), but I can hardly imagine that you want to ban automobiles (unless it was an evil SUV).

Please try to think clearly about issues that you write on in the future instead of just responding with blind emotion.

 

[Flintlock Tom]

Javacodeman,
Excellent and logical response, however, as you probably know, the "newspaper's" position is not based on, nor will it be swayed by, logic.

Your rebutal falls upon deaf ears.

Having said that, we must continue to challenge their idiocy.

 

[LAR-15]

Are rifles even legal for hunting coyotes in Illinois?

 

[javacodeman]

Thanks Flintlock Tom. I know what you're saying. I did ask them only to "try."

 

[6_gunner]

After reading about the terrible destructive power of these rifles, it occurred to me: If they have no practical use other than shooting tanks and helicopters, why do they think law enforcement should have them? Are drug dealers using tanks now?

Just scare tactics. If they can convince people that .50s are evil weapons of terror, it won't be that hard to justify banning all centerfire rifles!

 

[ProjectMayhem]

If I hadn't read it with my own two eyes on their website, I'd say that was an excellent piece of satire.

I notice they don't list an author for that editorial...which is probably a smart move.


While I don't live in the state in question and I have no plans, short or long term to acquire a .50 cal, I can't help but spiritually slam my head against the wall in frustration that such blatant fear mongering and fact distortion is permissable in any reputable newspaper.

It's almost too sensationalistic to be believed...I'm surprised no .50 caliber civilian legal firearms have been accused of committing sex crimes or high treason yet, the dirty, useless bastards. Why didn't they mention that it could also punch holes through space time, potentially creating rifts in the fabric of our reality - verily, open portals to the lands of the terrorists.

Someone think of the children, and the helicopters!


In the end this kind of thing is to be expected.

 

[Libertylover]

Ouch. Just ouch. It's retards like this "writer" whipping up the ignorant masses and the Senator he covers in government that are the REASON the Founders made sure to enumerate the right to arms in the Bill of Rights.

".50 caliber rifles can penetrate armor, WHAAAAA!!!" Just sounds like another reason every American should endeavor to have one if it's economically feasible for them.

 

[Jeff]

As far as legitimate purposes are concerned, I thought there were organized shooting events with these rifles where participants shoot at large targets a mile away. Maybe not in Illinois?

 

[Tim James]

That is one of the most hilarious editorials I've ever read. I can't believe that passed through a major newspaper's editorial board. It reads like two-bit local newspaper trash.

 

[Tim James]

My favorite line: "Explain that to your largely suburban constituents, who generally support reasonable gun control measures such as these."

GEE, I WONDER WHY?!

 

[Elza]

ProjectMayhem: ....reputable newspaper

An oxymoron I do believe.

 

[GoRon]

Are rifles even legal for hunting coyotes in Illinois?

Yes, year round I believe with a standard hunting license.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

One such rifle was found in the ashes of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.

[RANT]What threat were the Branch Davidians to anyone, just because they
had a gun business, the Mag Bag, and weapons for self-defense?

If anyone did not agree with Koresh's teachings, they were free to
leave Koresh's jurisdiction, 77 acres in McClennan Co TX. Many did
with no repurcussions: there are Branch Davidians in Australia, New
Zealand, New York, England and the Caribbean.

But the idea that it was OK to attack them and reduce their "compound"
to ashes because they owned a .50 caliber rifle is a bigger threat.
The anti-gunners support summary execution for just owning guns.
You can have your compound Waco-ized under Ruby Ridge Rules of
Engagement over definitions of objects you own. You don't have to
do anything, some bureaucrat just redefines a thing you own.

And what is a "compound" the government's word not only for the
Branch Davidian's rickety wood church and dormitory, but also
for Randy Weaver's plywood shack? By the dictionary, a "compound"
is a militarily fortified facility. When Gerry Spence asked DUSM Larry
Cooper at the Weaver trial how he justified calling the Weaver
homestead a "compound" Cooper answered that hanging a rifle on
your mantelpiece converts your home into a fortified compound as
far the government is concerned. And don't forget, Vicki Weaver's
fruit cellar and Koresh's tornado shelter were "bunkers" on their
"compounds."[/RANT]

 

[gotarheels03]

I love how the article says criminals love the weapon...... seeing as the 50cal has only been used in ONE documented crime, and I believe that was by a LEO or former-LEO.

It also says it can shoot down airplanes from a mile away In theory I guess, but considering both altitude & distance it'd be almost impossible to even hit a plane, much less hit it with one take-down shot.

 

[Jeff White]

This is a weapon that can shoot down airplanes or helicopters from more than a mile away.

I am so sick of reading this. We should all find battle damage pictures of shot up B17s from WWII and UH1s from Vietnam and send them to the tribune, or even better buy an ad and have them publish them for us.

Jeff

 

[Blackfork]

Davidian Barrett Rifle

The Davidians never shot their Barrett rifle during the siege. Lot of good it did them against the tanks and helicopters.

 

[Smellvin]

This is a weapon that can shoot down airplanes or helicopters from more than a mile away.

They might as well say that 50's are capable of killing seven people in one shot (if you used FMJ ammo and they were all kind enough to form a straight line...)

 

[Jeff White]

From the ISRA Website:
http://www.isra.org/

ISRA Press Release:
Sen. Kotowski's Fib Highlights Gun Control Movement's Credibility Gap

SPRINGFIELD, Ill., March 28 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following was released today by the Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA):

A prominent Illinois gun control advocate found himself tongue-tied after he was caught telling something other than the truth about a popular brand of target rifles. The gaffe came during a Wednesday press conference hosted by Sen. Dan Kotowski (D-33) in support of several gun control bills.

In his address, Kotowski pointed to a rifle staged as a prop for the event and described it as being a "military" weapon. What Kotowski did not know was that Mr. Mark Westrom, President of Armalite, Incorporated, was in the audience. Mr. Westrom rose to inform the attendees that his company manufactured the rifle in question, and that his company has never sold the rifle to the military. Westrom continued by pointing out that the rifle is purchased primarily by civilian target shooters. Westrom's revelation changed the course of the press conference, to say the least.

Kotowski's bending of the truth was yet another example of the lengths to which the Illinois gun control movement will go in order to move their anti- gun agenda forward.

"When Dan Kotowski was the director of the state's gun control lobby, he was expected to play fast and loose with the truth," commented ISRA Executive Director, Richard Pearson. "But, now that he's a State Senator, he has to understand that his constituency expects him to be honest about the issues of the day."

"I understand Dan's reluctance to stick to the truth," continued Pearson. "It sure would be tough for Kotowski to stand there and tell the taxpayers that he wants to spend $300 million to register guns owned by law-abiding citizens while ignoring notorious gun runners like Carail Weeks. It would be tough for Kotowski to stand in front of the state's hunters and tell them that he wants to take their guns away, despite the fact that 88% of murderers have previous criminal records and cannot even legally possess a firearm. It would be tough for Kotowski to stand there and tell law-abiding target shooters that their target rifles are a 'problem' even though he knows darn well almost half the murders committed in Chicago arise out of drug and/or gang activity. Indeed, the truth would be painful for Kotowski to tell. That's why he makes stuff up to tell folks who don't know any better."

"Here is one truth that Sen. Kotowski will come to understand," said Pearson. "I can guarantee him that the gun owners of this state are not going to let him misrepresent the facts unchallenged. We will confront him every time he steps out of line. Dan Kotowski will get no rest as long as he continues to advance his campaign of deception against the state's law-abiding firearm owners."

The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful and responsible firearms ownership. Since 1903, the ISRA has represented the interests of over 1.5 million law-abiding Illinois firearm owners

This press release is posted at US Newswire.

Bet the senator never expected that......

Jeff

 

[Scanr]

obliterating the state's entire coyote species with a single shot? Some sport.

And he has never seen a pack of yotes run down a mule deer eating it alive as it runs.

 

[Autolycus]

Thanks Jeff White for that article.

I am tired of reading lies and half truths about these guns. In World War Two didnt they use 4 .50 caliber Machine guns to shoot down planes?

Got to love the half truth.

 

[Jeff White]

In World War Two didnt they use 4 .50 caliber Machine guns to shoot down planes?

Most of our fighter planes mounted 6 to 8 .50 caliber machine guns. The axis fighters used a lot of 20mm cannon and .30 caliber machine gun combinations.

Just do a google search on B17, B24 and you should find plenty of pictures of bombers that were not constructed as well as airliners are today flying after they had been literally shot to pieces.

The golden BB can bring down anything that flies, but I'm sick of the implication that public ownership of a .50 caliber is a danger to commericial air travel. Somewhere here on THR there is a picture of a French (IIRC) airliner that was hit with a SAM7 (Soviet shoulder fired anti aircraft missile) and managed to make a safe landing.

Jeff