Chinese-made firearms

[Slater]

I've examined several new Chinese-made shotguns recently. One was the IAC 37 (Ithaca 37 clone), the Remington 870 clone, and the Winchester 97 trench gun copy. I can't speak to the metallurgy, but overall fit and finish seem to be on a par with current US- made shotguns of the same general class.

Their QC seems to have gradually improved over the years and their prices are hard to beat for someone on a budget. Anyone have any opinions pro/con on these particular shotguns? I realize the political angle generates strong feelings, but I just wanted to get a technical perspective.

 

[Onmilo]

Rough with thin finish and wood that is prone to checking and cracking with heavy use but they are cheap.
Spend the money and get the better American made product if you want it to last.

 

[Wayne D]

I've never been in one of their firearms factories, but I have been in several factories in China. They have modern facilities (except for the bathrooms) with modern machinery. They use AutoCAD and have CNC machinery. Their factories are just as good as ours. They are very adept at copying our stuff and they have the equipment to do it and they don't have to worry about the EPA and OSHA. They are smart people who learn quickly, that is why the quality is steadily getting better. The only thing that would concern me would be the metallurgy. I have no idea if they have any kind of industry standards for hardness and quality. Anybody remember Llamas?

And please don't flame me for endorsing products from Asia, I'm not endorsing anything, I'm just telling you what I have observed as an employee of a company that imports from Asia.

BTW, another country that is investing in modern manufacturing is Vietnam. Pretty soon you'll be seeing a lot more stuff than tennis shoes and clothes coming from there.

 

[SMLE]

I've owned 2 of the 1897 Trench guns, 1 '97 riot gun and an Ithaca '37 clone. All were good guns, worked and patterned well and didn't jam. The 2 trench guns would take an original Winchester made 1917 bayonet with no fitting at all. I had sell them for finance reasons, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. I think that affordable, functional guns in the hands of American gun owners is more important than issues of trading with China.

 

[4v50 Gary]

About six years ago, I went to the Norinco Factory that is north of Beijing. Didn't see any CNC or modern machinery like I did at American factories, but a lot of older machines. I've no objection to old machinery and old manufacturing techniques. Mind you, the Chinese do acquire new machinery whenever they can - it's just that they won't throw anything old away.

BTW, if you're worried about the wood, you can always have a synthetic fitted to it.

 

[Tomac]

My Chinese NMD-86 .308 Dragunov is capable of exceptional accuracy. My personal 4-shot ctc best at 100yds is .44" and my best 3-shot ctc best is .24". Even my 15yr-old son had no trouble hitting the 750m gong with it. The exterior of the NDM-86 isn't as nicely done as it might be but the rifle has it where it counts! Also have a couple of their 870 clones and after hundreds of rds of field load, buck & 00 the only problem encountered is the ghost ring sights loosening from recoil (easy fix w/loctite). I have noticed that the screws they use appear to be soft compared to their US counterparts so care must be used to avoid burring.
Tomac

 

[joab]

The 1897s are regularly used in Cowboy Competition
Where the guns see more action in a weekend than most of our's do in a year or more.
I looked for a used one, off and on,for over a year before I found it. That tells me that at least people aren't throwing them out.
The local cowboy supplier told me that he couldn't keep the on the shelves.
That tells me that they have a good rep with the people that use them.

 

[Byron Quick]

I had a Norinco MAK-90 begin to have major 'issues' after about three hundred rounds of use. Slam firing and such. Granted it was made about ten years ago. Maybe they've improved. Maybe I got a lemon.

 

[mainmech48]

Presently, I have one of the Norinco Browning ATD .22 copies, a Polytech SKS T-56, and several Chinese-made air rifles. I've handled several of the various shotties, and fired a few rounds from a couple of them.

All-in-all, I've had pretty good luck with them. The only real problems were a broken extractor on the ATD, and one air gun that went through seals 'way too quickly.

The broken extractor allowed me to buy the .22 for a short song ($25) even though it was otherwise LNIB. A Browning part from Brownell's dropped right in and it's run through several K rounds since with no problems. Still nowhere near the level of workmanship found on the genuine article, but far better than one would expect for the retail price, IMO.

The SKS is by far the most accurate of the several different makes that I own. It'll shoot into about half of what my Tula, Romy, Albie or Yugo will with any given ammo and will break 2" from sandbags at 100 yds with a particular lot of Norinco ball.

All I can say for the '97 and 870 copies I fired is that they didn't malf, patterned acceptably, and exhibited a better level of fit and finish that I expected given the very low prices. How they'd hold up under extended use compared to the originals, I couldn't say.

While it's unfortunate that we probably won't be seeing any new examples coming in from Norinco any time soon due to their being prohibited from importation for selling missle parts, specialized machine tools, and PLA expertise in the use of same to the Iranis, Iraqis, North Koreans, etc., they needed the smack-down to get their attention.