Chinese updating their Type 95 bullpup & Ammo

Status
Not open for further replies.
If you had to plan on the possibility of an engagement with an enemy using body armour / lightly armoured vechicles and be maneuverable. Than you are going to need a bullet at top speed that will penetrate armour. The bull pup and AP bullets are optimal in that scenario. Don't underestimate the Chinese, they don't have to get it 100% right to succeed.
 
Just because Generation one sucks, doesn't mean that Generation Two won't kick yer fuzzy buttocks.

They watch, they learn.

We should have went to a Bullpup M-14 instead that tinkertoy M-16.
 
95vs81.jpg

i guess theh length of pull is longer than the type 81 but chinese people are getting taller as diet improves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height
China (PRC) 172.7 cm (5' 8") 162.5 cm (5' 4") Urban adults Measured 2008 [10]
China (PRC) 170.2 cm (5' 7.0") 158.6 cm (5' 2.5") Urban, 17 Measured 2002 [11]
China (PRC) 166.3 cm (5' 5.5") 157.0 cm (5' 1.8") Rural, 17 Measured 2002 [11]
Click to expand...

desert2.jpg


cbrgator said:
It might be ugly but I bet it can kill Americans pretty well.
Click to expand...
paranoia, now that the KMT is in power, much more likely to take on Russia for some "unredeemed" manchurian and mongolian far eastern territories.
 
First row, kneeling, middle soldier. What is he holding?
Is that an integrated suppressor I see?
 
In my personal experience doing business overseas, I can tell you two things.

First, China is a HUGE country, with factories all over. Of all shapes, sizes, and varieties. Old school machine shops, CNC machining plants, injection moulding, prototyping, it's all there.

Second, I can guarantee you, that the Chinese can make just about any product, to as high a degree of quality AS THEIR CUSTOMER IS WILLING TO PAY FOR.

Most Americans' experience with Made-in-China product is found in a Wal-Mart. Well, Wal-Mart was not willing to pay extra money for quality control. The PLA may (or may not!) be willing to spend.

If you want an idea on how HIGH the quality can get, well, I can tell you that the EoTechs (real EoTechs, not knockoffs) being sold on the commercial market are not made in Ann Arbor, MI.
 
First row, kneeling, middle soldier. What is he holding?
Is that an integrated suppressor I see?
Click to expand...

Suppressed submachine gun. It's a Type 85 but it should had been replaced by a Type 05 by now.
 
I have no experience with their rifles but I do have experience with the Norinco shotgun. Only can say one thing about it, it is a POS. IMO the Maverick 88 ($190) is a custom made shotgun compared to the Norinco Model 97 Trench Gun 12g 20"($565).This thing has the roughest slide action that I have ever seen, shell ejection problems and the finish wore off on parts of the barrel and mag after a couple of trips to the range.
Local gun shop declined the opportunity to work on the problems and said it would be cheaper to buy a new gun, but not another Norinco.
 
Tyan: Suppressed submachine gun. It's a Type 85 but it should had been replaced by a Type 05 by now.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tyan. I'm going to look that one up.

RX-178, I agree. Although they are known for some spectacular goofs, they have done and made things that are the exact opposite. I have several Chinese made items (non-firearms) that are of very high quality. In some cases exceeding American, Japanese, and European equivalents.
As far as firearms, I remember the old Norinco M1911's being pretty good.
Especially as a base gun to work with.
 
i guess theh length of pull is longer than the type 81 but chinese people are getting taller as diet improves.
Click to expand...

But look at the comparison - the LOP is nearly 2/3rds again as much that of the AK - the Chinese ain't getting 66% taller with arms to match, and I don't care if they're eating astronaut food morning noon and night. Elmerfudd is right - stick them in a winter war and see if they can even reach the trigger - I seriously doubt it.
 
But look at the comparison - the LOP is nearly 2/3rds again as much that of the AK - the Chinese ain't getting 66% taller with arms to match, and I don't care if they're eating astronaut food morning noon and night.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's just BAD ergonomics. Of course the Chinese will still be able to shoulder these rifles, but they won't be able to shoot them as well or bring them into action as quickly as they could if they were actually designed to fit human beings. If you've ever tried to shoulder a rifle or shotgun with too long a LOP quickly you know what it's like. The buttstock gets stuck in your armpit and you have to hesitate for a second or so while you extend your arm more fully to get the gun on target. It also makes it harder to get a good sight picture.
 
If they are gonna replace these, most likely the surplus will end up being exported to Canada. I bet the Chinese will come up with something new. They got enough money to buy us out. Sooner or later they will have a better weapon system to boot. Its a matter of time. They observe, learn and they innovate.
In fact , the Chicom Type 56 was an improved copy of RUssian AK 47. The Viets even followed making their own AK version based on Chinese copy with the folding spike bayonet.
 
The Chinese should not be under estimated. This gun might have issues, but I wouldn't dismiss their claims on the capabilities of the cartridge out of hand the way a few have. It makes no benefit for them to lie about what they can do.

The Chinese, in waiting so long to enter the fray in modern assault rifles, and 2nd gen assault rifle bullets, that they've likely built a
3rd gen assault rifle bullet.

We'll know as soon as the Chinese attack someone. We'll likely see the results on TV. And given that combat (mechanized) often happens at such close distances, I wouldn't be surprised at all at hard plate penetrations against Japanese or Taiwanese troops (their most likely opponents as of right now).
 
I suspect that in the event of a war, we'd end up hearing about any shortcomings of their rifle afterward once they decided to redesign or replace it.

Any battle will probably be mostly decided by air power, naval power, missiles and heavy weapons anyway and unless their rifle is a total POS we won't be aware of whether they regard it as a success or a failure until some time afterward.
 
The Chinese, in waiting so long to enter the fray in modern assault rifles, and 2nd gen assault rifle bullets, that they've likely built a
3rd gen assault rifle bullet.



Given that it isn't much wider than a 5.45/5.56mm bullet, and is in the same weight and velocity range, I don't think what they have is a next-gen assault rifle cartridge. Maybe a very well done current gen cartridge.
 
Maybe NG VI....

My main thing is that I don't want to judge the rifle, and cartridge seeing as how I have never shot one, analyzed it's effects, handled it, etc.

Also, the Chinese haven't had combat experience.

I do suspect that the cartridge will end up being better than the rifle that shoots it, but only time (and battle) will show.
 
I ve seen recent news video shot by British reporters showiing Sri Lankan troops using the Type 95 engaging LTTE rebels. I think it was BBC or it could worldfocus.org . So it thus had some combat experience but not much to tak about. They maybe using the 5.56 cal version bec the 5.8 is a propriety round for PLA only.

Well the best show to watch is when the PLA put up parade this coming Oct 1 in Tiananmen Square with China's 60th Anniversary. THey have stuff we havent seen before .
 
The Chinese rifle might not be better today but could very well be better later on, trying new things and making improvements is what leads to innovation.
Click to expand...

This only applies in capitalism, not in communist countries :evil:
 
China today is communist in name only. Sure they're still an authoritarian dictatorship, but they completely abandoned the economic principles of communism back in the 80's.
 
Thanks for taking away from my joke, whaddaya some kinda professor or somethin'? That was kinda my point :neener:
 
As for Chinese quality, how much did you paid for the Norinco shotgun? pick one, cheap or good but not both.



Here's an earlier article on the latest Chinese optic design

Would you pay $1300 for a Chinese made optic that's in the same class as Swarovski? You won't and neither was the Chinese .mil.

Btw, all the Apple products are made in China. Nikon's camera division made most of their prime lens and high-end consumer zoom lens over there too. Granted those aren't no-name red-dots for $69. If you willing to pay top dollars for it they can build decent enough stuff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top