Choices for first 9mm
- Thread starter Bruenor
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belus
Member
I had a tough time choosing between the CZ and HP... both are among my favorites.
I voted for the CZ because it's a little more versatile than the HP, but definitely try both out. I find the controls easier to reach on the HP, but it's sprung more heavily so some of my women shooting companions struggle to manipulate the slide.
If you like one you'll end up with the other sooner or later.
I have no experience shooting the Cougar or any Beretta clone. The 92 feels a little too large for me so I've never bothered to get one.
I voted for the CZ because it's a little more versatile than the HP, but definitely try both out. I find the controls easier to reach on the HP, but it's sprung more heavily so some of my women shooting companions struggle to manipulate the slide.
If you like one you'll end up with the other sooner or later.
I have no experience shooting the Cougar or any Beretta clone. The 92 feels a little too large for me so I've never bothered to get one.
The CZ-75 and the Cougar will both serve you well.
I personally vote for the CZ as they are rock-solid and proven design. They are based on the High Power design, with the main difference of the slide being in the frame, rather then the slide around the frame as on the High Power. The supposed benefit is that it makes for a stronger, more accurate gun. I don't know how valid this claim is, but the Sig210, the most accurate production pistol in history, also had a slide-in-frame design.
The only 'bad' thing about a CZ is that it is difficult to own only one CZ! They are like a drug, once you start, there's no stopping!
I personally vote for the CZ as they are rock-solid and proven design. They are based on the High Power design, with the main difference of the slide being in the frame, rather then the slide around the frame as on the High Power. The supposed benefit is that it makes for a stronger, more accurate gun. I don't know how valid this claim is, but the Sig210, the most accurate production pistol in history, also had a slide-in-frame design.
The only 'bad' thing about a CZ is that it is difficult to own only one CZ! They are like a drug, once you start, there's no stopping!
renegade1alpha
Member.
CZ75. Period!
I know people are high on the CZ, and all studies would indicate it is a high quality firearm. Here's why I'm not high on it. It's heavy. It's big. And I don't like the feel of the grip in my hand. That is going to be different for each person. On the other hand, my Stoeger Cougar is lighter (but not light) a good size, and the grip feels like a glove in my hand. I have raved about the Cougar on a few threads, and I'll do it here. It is $350 but feels like a $600 dollar gun. I can't say enough about how tight the fit and finish is. It has an extremely low recoil for an already low recoiling round, due to the rotating barrel. I just bought an FNP-9, which I like, but it doesn't feel as slick and solid as the less expensive Cougar. Also the slide on the Cougar rides on top of the frame, instead of inside the frame like the CZ. That is an annoying thing about the CZ to me, the thin grip on the slide due to it riding inside the frame. There is no better deal out there price-wise than the Cougar, that is for sure. I love that gun.
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I know people are high on the CZ....I have raved about the Cougar on a few threads, and I'll do it here.....Also the slide on the Cougar rides on top of the frame, instead of inside the frame like the CZ. That is an annoying thing about the CZ to me, the thin grip on the slide due to it riding inside the frame.
I agree that the Cougar is a very nice gun but find working the slide to be a big irritation...literally. The decocker is slide mounted and sharp and digs into the hand that is gripping the slide to work the action. Great shooting and fitting otherwise.
In this price range I think one should also take a look at the Ruger P95....reliable and accurate.
I agree that the Cougar is a very nice gun but find working the slide to be a big irritation...literally. The decocker is slide mounted and sharp and digs into the hand that is gripping the slide to work the action. Great shooting and fitting otherwise.
In this price range I think one should also take a look at the Ruger P95....reliable and accurate.
wristtwister
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
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- 419
I really like the SR-9 by Ruger. It's the smoothest gun I've ever fired. I know it's got a safety problem that needs fixing, but they are great guns. I put a bunch of rounds through mine before tableing it to ship back to Ruger.
I've also got a S&W model 39-2 that's a smoothe 9mm shooter.
If you're only interested in plastic toys, I wouldn't recommend the S&W guns, but there are a ton of 9mm law enforcement models out there for about $350 that are $1000 new, and you can get a lot of new parts for $650 (or more guns)... I shoot Smith .40's (model 4006), but I've shot their comparable 9mm and they're good shooters too.
The 9x18 Makarov is also a good little gun with a lot of POW... and field tested by the KGB. What more could you ask?
I've shot a couple of CZ's, and they are also good guns. I like their .380's more than the 9mm... but it might just have been the models I shot that was the difference.
I suggest shooting a couple of guns before you decide what you want. If you can't take them to the shooting range from the dealer, ask some of the people at the range if they would mind letting you run a few rounds through their gun and explain why... (take your own ammo). Most of the guys where I shoot would let anybody interested in their guns give them a test drive.
WT
I've also got a S&W model 39-2 that's a smoothe 9mm shooter.
If you're only interested in plastic toys, I wouldn't recommend the S&W guns, but there are a ton of 9mm law enforcement models out there for about $350 that are $1000 new, and you can get a lot of new parts for $650 (or more guns)... I shoot Smith .40's (model 4006), but I've shot their comparable 9mm and they're good shooters too.
The 9x18 Makarov is also a good little gun with a lot of POW... and field tested by the KGB. What more could you ask?
I've shot a couple of CZ's, and they are also good guns. I like their .380's more than the 9mm... but it might just have been the models I shot that was the difference.
I suggest shooting a couple of guns before you decide what you want. If you can't take them to the shooting range from the dealer, ask some of the people at the range if they would mind letting you run a few rounds through their gun and explain why... (take your own ammo). Most of the guys where I shoot would let anybody interested in their guns give them a test drive.
WT
glassman
Member
CZ
I have a CZ compact. It's heavier than the polymer frame guns for sure but not so heavy as to be unweildy or uncomfortable. That extra bit of weight is somehow comforting to me when I carry it. The feel in the hand, for me at least, is just right but I did swap out the plastic grips for a thinner cocobolo version. The best part of this pistol is that it's extremely reliable and accurate.
I have a CZ compact. It's heavier than the polymer frame guns for sure but not so heavy as to be unweildy or uncomfortable. That extra bit of weight is somehow comforting to me when I carry it. The feel in the hand, for me at least, is just right but I did swap out the plastic grips for a thinner cocobolo version. The best part of this pistol is that it's extremely reliable and accurate.
BlindJustice
Member
CZ 75B
The slide rails inside the frame doesn't necessarily make it stronger
but the rails are long and this is a part of the design thought to aid in
it's accuracy. The trigger is stirrup like in that it goes around
the magazine and can be tuned - unlike the Browning High Power
the BHP trigger goes up into the slide and is a heavy trigger pull,
removing the magazine disconnect can remove some of the heavy trigger
pull but some gunsmiths are reluctant to mess with liability issues.
Another point for the CZ 75B - the Kadet .22 LR conversion kit fits
the full size 75B or the Compact
THe 75B can be DA first shot -OR- SA Cocked & Locked/Condition One
a feature I like - if I'm at the range or in the field, after the first DA shot
and then SA I can pause and -put the thumb safety on.
Good luck with your choice.
oh, the first high capacity 9MM is the Browning Hi Power or P0-35 as
the Belgians called it. but it is SA only like the 1911.
I ordered a 75B yesterday to get a 9MM for the range - My primary
will remain my 1911/.45 ACP FOR THE RECORD.
-
The slide rails inside the frame doesn't necessarily make it stronger
but the rails are long and this is a part of the design thought to aid in
it's accuracy. The trigger is stirrup like in that it goes around
the magazine and can be tuned - unlike the Browning High Power
the BHP trigger goes up into the slide and is a heavy trigger pull,
removing the magazine disconnect can remove some of the heavy trigger
pull but some gunsmiths are reluctant to mess with liability issues.
Another point for the CZ 75B - the Kadet .22 LR conversion kit fits
the full size 75B or the Compact
THe 75B can be DA first shot -OR- SA Cocked & Locked/Condition One
a feature I like - if I'm at the range or in the field, after the first DA shot
and then SA I can pause and -put the thumb safety on.
Good luck with your choice.
oh, the first high capacity 9MM is the Browning Hi Power or P0-35 as
the Belgians called it. but it is SA only like the 1911.
I ordered a 75B yesterday to get a 9MM for the range - My primary
will remain my 1911/.45 ACP FOR THE RECORD.
-
DawgFvr
Member
CZ's trigger is just tooooooo far out for me to pull comfortably. Who in the hell designed the ergo on this pistol? It is a large, heavy weapon to boot. That is what you want for your first 9mm?
The DA/SA just plain sucks for a revolver guy.
Now I own a Stoger Cougar...same goes for its DA/SA.
For your first 9mm I would recommend something far different than the three choices you posted up there.
The DA/SA just plain sucks for a revolver guy.
Now I own a Stoger Cougar...same goes for its DA/SA.
For your first 9mm I would recommend something far different than the three choices you posted up there.
Yosemite**Sam
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 156
Without a doubt the CZ.
Anna's Dad
Member
Of the three, I would definately choose the CZ. I have an older Pre-B CZ 75 and love it. It feels good in my hands and is stunningly accurate.
The only other gun in the price range that I enjoy as much is the S&W M&P in 9mm.
The only other gun in the price range that I enjoy as much is the S&W M&P in 9mm.
Cliff47
Member
While the CZ75 and the BHP share some design features, the CZ was designed from a blank sheet of paper as an export device to generate hard (read Western) currency. Sure, the CZ has the locking lugs in the barrel/slide like the BHP, and the trigger stirrup is more like the S&W semi-auto pistols than the 1911 design, but the trigger pull is transmitted to the hammer differently than the S&W pistols.
Granted the ergonomics are not perfect for everyone (I find the 1911 awkward, ditto Glock), but the BHP and CZ ergos are at the top of my personal list. Go figure.
Yes, CZs are habit forming, and I suspect I have heard them breeding in my range bag in the dark of the night. I could have a more expensive form of recreation...
Granted the ergonomics are not perfect for everyone (I find the 1911 awkward, ditto Glock), but the BHP and CZ ergos are at the top of my personal list. Go figure.
Yes, CZs are habit forming, and I suspect I have heard them breeding in my range bag in the dark of the night. I could have a more expensive form of recreation...
Something Different
Well there is another option! Go to www.summitgunbroker.com talk to Mark Kitterman about all the SW 5906 or 5903's he has. You would be hard pressed to find a good 9MM at the fantastic prices he offers. The 3rd Generation SW auto's are boringly reliable and accurate. Magazines are cheap, which Mark has bunches of. The gun itself is reasonable small, and if you get the 5903 which is a stainless steel slide with alloy frame, they make for very comfortable CCW. With the money you would save you could buy yourself a quality holster, and plenty of ammo for practice, and carry.
Well there is another option! Go to www.summitgunbroker.com talk to Mark Kitterman about all the SW 5906 or 5903's he has. You would be hard pressed to find a good 9MM at the fantastic prices he offers. The 3rd Generation SW auto's are boringly reliable and accurate. Magazines are cheap, which Mark has bunches of. The gun itself is reasonable small, and if you get the 5903 which is a stainless steel slide with alloy frame, they make for very comfortable CCW. With the money you would save you could buy yourself a quality holster, and plenty of ammo for practice, and carry.
possum
Member
i say go for the cougar
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
I would have said CZ but last weekend at the range my 75 compact kept jamming with ball ammo, so now I'm in limbo and can't vote on the 2 remaining choices because no exper. with the Cougar. I used to be real keen on CZs and may be again if I figure out the cause of these jams and it's easily correctible
I just bought my first 9mm about a month ago. It was a CZ 75B in stainless (I'm moving to a hot and humid climate in a few months, plus I liked the looks of it).
About 300 rounds along the way, I'm very happy with it--just ONE piece of advice--thoroughly clean it and lube it to remove the packing lube BEFORE going to the range; I didn't, and it was absolutely FILTHY with schmung after only 300 rounds. I expect the minor problems I've had to resolve themselves the next time I'm at the range (probably tomorrow).
Big it surely is, but not ridiculously so. It points very nicely and handles very well. The trigger is already starting to smooth out, the recoil is almost pleasant, and it's very, very accurate, certainly by comparison to the guy shooting it.
This guy has an almost new one at a good price: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=360195
About 300 rounds along the way, I'm very happy with it--just ONE piece of advice--thoroughly clean it and lube it to remove the packing lube BEFORE going to the range; I didn't, and it was absolutely FILTHY with schmung after only 300 rounds. I expect the minor problems I've had to resolve themselves the next time I'm at the range (probably tomorrow).
Big it surely is, but not ridiculously so. It points very nicely and handles very well. The trigger is already starting to smooth out, the recoil is almost pleasant, and it's very, very accurate, certainly by comparison to the guy shooting it.
This guy has an almost new one at a good price: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=360195
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