Choices on what to do M1 Garand

[lysanderxiii]

@Slamfire how does brass get stretched as the bolt closes?

While The case cannot be stretched as the bolt closes, depending on the type of action, tolerances of the bolt and barre, and the chamber headspace, the case stretch can be exacerbated, It is very common in machine guns, but also seen in M1s, M14s, and FALs. It happens when there is excessive space between the front of the bolt locking lugs and the forward arresting face of the barrel.

When you check the chamber headspace, you measure the distance "A", but normally you do not know "B".



So, when a semi-automatic (or automatic for those lucky ones) chambers, the bolt stops when it hits something firm and unyielding, which the case is not. The case will get resized to a new length.



Slamfire's description is generally correct, however the friction of the primer in its pocket coupled with the action of the main spring and hammer will hold the bolt forward with enough force to keep the primer from moving rearward. While the pressure in the case is 50 to 60 KSI, the pressure has to flow through the vent and reduces the pressure, as well as the area available is far less. Tests measuring primer pushout forces show it to be around 80 to 95 pounds for normal chamber pressures. The force required to push a properly fitted primer in a case 90 to 100 pounds.

If you are seeing primers pushed out of their pockets, that is an indication of case deformation due to high pressure or high bolt thrust. If the primer pocket gets loose you run the risk of bolt face erosion.

 

[Mars5l]

Well just an update, they said they'd look at it and figure out a way to help me out. Brought it in today also asked them what they'd give me for it on trade in. So they gave me $1500 for it, which is what I paid for it. I decided it was just better off to give it back and take 2 rifles out of lay away. I'll get another Garand, I'll just keep an eye out for something nicer and an International Harvester model

 

[AlexanderA]

So they gave me $1500 for it, which is what I paid for it.

Good move on your part.

From the point of view of the gun shop, though, this leaves me scratching my head. Clearly the gun, especially after your test firing, is not worth $1,500. But the key factor here is that this is the shop you originally bought the gun from, and you are a regular customer. So they are willing to take a loss to keep you happy. But I'll bet another shop would not have offered you as much.

 

[Show Me]

I took my my overpriced 1943 Garand back to the range today and used modern PPU to see in it would even cycle. Well that was a negative. Case heads are bulged a little, was smart to bring a long cleaning rod this time. Ripped the rims off. So I guess my choices are A:Make it a wall hanger B: Rebarrel it, C: Sell it. Any other choices I'm missing out on? 3/4 shot out barrels are on ebay for under $100 but I'd have to get someone else to change it, and the barrel on it is original to the rifle. I saw a fresh Criterion for $200, and NOS 1950s barrels for over $300. For what I paid then a rebarrel I could have had a expert grade from CMP. I do have another choice and trade a friend for his 1944 Mosin. Attached is photos of the cases

View attachment 1147797 View attachment 1147798

Hone the chamber. Easy does it. I have a 44 that must have been a kit way back. Barrel has no numbers but does have pipe wrench marks on it. Was going to send it for a CMP barrel job but joined up and get an expert. It even has a new CMP gas cylinder. Shoots better than the other one but not that much better

 

[Show Me]

is the CMP still selling rack grades ?

Rack grade is a money pit unless you leave it alone

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Rack grade is a money pit unless you leave it alone

So I take that as, no one else wants them?

 

[Gun-Reck]

M1 barrels - are a consumable.

Note: Replacement barrels - are hard to come by of late. Think that the CMP is buying them all to fix the generally poor condition "Philippine Return" rifles.

 

[d2wing]

Well just an update, they said they'd look at it and figure out a way to help me out. Brought it in today also asked them what they'd give me for it on trade in. So they gave me $1500 for it, which is what I paid for it. I decided it was just better off to give it back and take 2 rifles out of lay away. I'll get another Garand, I'll just keep an eye out for something nicer and an International Harvester model

That's what I would do. I have enough dust collectors. i sold my decent Garand years ago when I no longer enjoyed shooting it.

 

[Gun-Reck]

That's what I would do. I have enough dust collectors. i sold my decent Garand years ago when I no longer enjoyed shooting it.

When I no longer enjoy shooting mine?

... they will be burying it with me.

 

[Show Me]

So I take that as, no one else wants them?

Ya ok

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Ya ok

I actually prefer the beat old rifles. That's what makes collecting milsurp fun to me. Of course I'm going to have one of htem be in shooting condition.

 

[Show Me]

Great . my comment was about using a rack grade as a fixer upper. As in money pit. For 500 more you get 1000 in new parts if you buy the expert

 

[Gun-Reck]

Great . my comment was about using a rack grade as a fixer upper. As in money pit. For 500 more you get 1000 in new parts if you buy the expert

When available, the CMP Service Grades were the "sweet spot."

For an extra $100 (15%?) over Field Grade, one got generally near new rifles, with over 10K rounds of barrel life.

Sayonara.

 

[Chief TC]

Hard to tell exactly what is going on. I am thinking excessive headspace and chamber corrosion. Muzzle corrosion exists too but that would not cause your case problems and sometime eroded muzzles still shoot well. My LMR barrel muzzle is badly eroded and shoots sub 2 MOA. There are gunsmith companies that specialize in Garands you can ship the gun for inspection and they can recommend what you need to get it into firing shape. I use PPU factory ammo sometimes but be sure it is for the M1 Garand. Don't use general 30-06 ammo.

 

[P5 Guy]

All the talk...
Replace the barrel with a 7,62NATO chamber.
I had Bruce Dow install a Kreiger barrel on the middle rifle. I put the National Match sites in the rifle, Shims tighten the stock fit.

 

[Rlafever]

re- barrel it

 

[Remington1911]

My two bits, it is worth putting a barrel on it just because it is what it is everything else is off the table. Keep the old barrel. A little like keeping the original engine and trans out of a classic car even if they are worn out and you don't want to screw with it, that will add value and just how much space does it take up?

Then swing over to gunboards and talk to those guys, they eat sleep and breathe this stuff, that advice I would listen to.

 

[Show Me]

View attachment 1153155

All the talk...
Replace the barrel with a 7,62NATO chamber.
I had Bruce Dow install a Kreiger barrel on the middle rifle. I put the National Match sites in the rifle, Shims tighten the stock fit.

Do those run on 50,000 psi NATO rounds or 60,000 psi .308. I've seen 308 conversion. Havens come across NATO conversion. Good looking rifles

 

[Jeremy2171]

Well just an update, they said they'd look at it and figure out a way to help me out. Brought it in today also asked them what they'd give me for it on trade in. So they gave me $1500 for it, which is what I paid for it. I decided it was just better off to give it back and take 2 rifles out of lay away. I'll get another Garand, I'll just keep an eye out for something nicer and an International Harvester model

Good call..that rifle needed LOTS of work

 

[Jeremy2171]

I use PPU factory ammo sometimes but be sure it is for the M1 Garand. Don't use general 30-06 ammo.

Ugh.... no...just no. There is no real difference.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Do those run on 50,000 psi NATO rounds or 60,000 psi .308. I've seen 308 conversion. Havens come across NATO conversion. Good looking rifles

You are confused... 308/7.62 same thing. Both have a max pressure of 415 MPa.

 

[Chief TC]

Ugh.... no...just no. There is no real difference.

Sorry Jeremy, the forums are replete with "good and reliable" information that commercial ammo not designated for the M1 Garand is not recommended as it can damage the op rod. Either clarify your comment and give specifics and be more careful what you tell people or do more learning before giving advice.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Sorry Jeremy, the forums are replete with "good and reliable" information that commercial ammo not designated for the M1 Garand is not recommended as it can damage the op rod. Either clarify your comment and give specifics and be more careful what you tell people or do more learning before giving advice.

There isn't much "good and reliable " information out that supports that claim. Milsurp and commercial ammo operate at similar port pressures and the oprods are damaged more from lack of lubrication and improper disassembly than anything else.

 

[Chief TC]

There isn't much "good and reliable " information out that supports that claim. Milsurp and commercial ammo operate at similar port pressures and the oprods are damaged more from lack of lubrication and improper disassembly than anything else.

You may be correct about how op rods are damaged more often from things other than port pressures but experts have detailed numerous times that commercial ammo is an unnecessary risk. So unless you have done exhaustive tests showing that ALL commercial ammo is perfectly safe then you shouldn't be telling people not to worry about it - BAD ADVICE. Plenty of actual experts that have measured pressures proving some ammo can damage the op rod.

 

[Jeremy2171]

You may be correct about how op rods are damaged more often from things other than port pressures but experts have detailed numerous times that commercial ammo is an unnecessary risk. So unless you have done exhaustive tests showing that ALL commercial ammo is perfectly safe then you shouldn't be telling people not to worry about it - BAD ADVICE. Plenty of actual experts that have measured pressures proving some ammo can damage the op rod.

I'd like to see these experts with their pressure test data. I'd also like to see the pressure that causes damage to the oprod and where it is damaged and HOW it is damaged.

This will be interesting.