Chono'd my two snubbies today

[flip180]

Well, I just got back from the range trying out some new .38 handloads that I put together a couple of days ago and decided to take both my S&W M66 2-1/2 in. bbl and my S&W 642 with a 1-7/8 in. bbl. My handloads consisted of :

Winchester .38 SPCL cases
Winchester small pistol primers
3.4 gr. Titegroup
158 gr. lead round nose bullets

I also tried out some carry ammo for both the .357 and the .38 to see how they preform in their perspective guns. The .357 consisted of Remington 125gr. Golden Saber JHP's and Corbon 140gr. JHP's. The .38 SPCL consited of Remington 158gr.+P LSWCHP's and Speer 135gr.+P JHP's.

Here are the numbers for the M66

Handload:
Hi=736 fps. Lo=705 fps. Avg= 719 fps. Es=31 fps. Sd=10 fps.
Golden Saber 125gr. .357:
Hi=1214 fps. Lo=1146 fps. Avg=1184 fps. Es=68 fps. Sd=23 fps.
Corbon 140gr. .357:
Hi=1275 fps. Lo=1088 fps. Avg=1196 fps. Es=187 fps. Sd=50 fps.

Here are the numbers for the 642

Handload:
Hi=719 fps. Lo=662 fps. Avg=690 fps. Es=57 fps. Sd=15 fps.
Remington 158gr.+P LSWCHP:
Hi=882 fps. Lo=815 fps. Avg=858 fps. Es=67 fps. Sd=21 fps.
Speer 135gr.+P JHP's
Hi=948 fps. Lo=907 fps. Avg=932 fps. Es=41 fps. Sd=12 fps.

These numbers were taken using a tripod mounted ProChrono chronograph from 10 feet away from the muzzle of the pistols. The recoil with the 642 using the +p's seemed equal or even greater than that of the M66 using the .357's. The Golden Sabers had the the least felt recoil that any of the four defensive rounds fired today. It seem that the heavier weight and the full grips of the M66 helped make the recoil more enjoyable than that of the lighter shorter gripped 642.

Flip (my nickname of 13 yrs.)

 

[paul105]

A while back, I chronoed the following out of my S&W Scandium 340 with 1 7/8" barrel

Scandium Chrono Results – 2 Each of the Following – Temp 70 – 3 Paces from Muzzle (Approx 9 Ft.)

158 gr Lead SWHP, Remington Factory +P .38 Special 762 fps
158 gr Lead SWHP, Remington Factory +P .38 Special 743 fps

180 gr Lead WFN LBT, Federal Factory .357 Magnum 885 fps
180 gr Lead WFN LBT, Federal Factory .357 Magnum 929 fps

130 gr Hydra-Shok JHP, Federal Personal Defense .357 Mag 1,153 fps
130 gr Hydra-Shok JHP, Federal Personal Defense .357 Mag 1,165 fps

130 gr Jacked Round Nose, Fed American Eagle .38 Special 668 fps
130 gr Jacked Round Nose, Fed American Eagle .38 Special 692 fps

158gr CSWC 13.5gr H2400 at 1,064 fps .357 Mag
158gr CSWC 13.5gr H2400 at 1,085 fps .357 Mag

158gr JHP XTP 13.5gr H2400 at 1,001 fps .357 Mag
158gr JHP XTP 13.5gr H2400 at 1,017 fps .357 Mag

 

[Jim March]

Flip: I wish you'd tested the 135 Gold Dot and Remmie 158 in the 66.

That aside, what I like here is that the 135 and 158 in the 642 both performed "within spec", at speeds where those rounds are known to expand...at least on average. Out to 25 yards or so, both rounds are usually going to work; past 50yds the Remmie might start running out of steam, the 135 shortly thereafter...I like to see about 825fps out of these loads at the time of impact. But that's OK given the gun's role.

Thank you for posting . It confirms quite well what our current thinking is on 38snubbie loads.

The downside: we can also see how marginal the 38snub proposition is, even with good loads. If you manage to fling out a round at the low end of it's performance range (esp. the Remmie 158 at 820fps), it might not expand even at 7 - 10yds. Which is why I've been preaching tight gaps in these guns and running a 3" barrel whenever practical, to reduce the "Murphy Factor".

Testing these loads in the 66 might have told us how much "Anti-Murphy Factor" we get out of even fractionally longer tubes.

 

[P95Carry]

Flip ...... always good to see figures .... gives us all useful pointers and criteria.

Thx for that. I expect early next week to test some Gold Dots thru Rohrbaugh R9 ... to see how they shape up compared with other 9mm's thru same gun a while ago .... Range report

All posted info on these matters is most valuable I feel .. helps others a lot without them having to do the hard work!

 

[flip180]

I'm going to order some more .357 ammo to test in the .66 and will go ahead and order some more of the 135gr.+P Speers while I'm at it. I only ordered one box and practically had to wait 1-2 months to get it. I wished that I had ordered more. The remaining ten rounds are sitting in the 642 and my speed loader now. I have 20 rds. of the 158gr.+P remmies to try ten out in my M66 in my next range session. Who knows, maybe I'll load the last remaining ten 158's in the 642 and take the last ten Speers out to the range to chrono in the M66. Overall I'm happy with the performance of the Corbons. I had one slow round bring the Avg Fps down. Here is the Fps. of each round of the ten round string of the Corbons.

1. 1212 fps.
2. 1195 fps.
3. 1218 fps.
4. 1184 fps.
5. 1163 fps.
6. 1191 fps.
7. 1254 fps.
8. 1275 fps.
9. 1187 fps.
10. *1088 fps.*

The average fps. without the slow round was 1208 fps. with an Es of 112 fps.

Flip.

 

[flip180]

P95Carry

I tested out some Corbon 125g.+P JHP's (9mm) out of my Glock-26 last week and was going to post the numbers but deleted out the string when trying to post. I accidently pushed the wrong button (delete string) on the chrono while navigating throught the data. All I can remember was the average speed was 1205 or 1208 fps (something like that). I still have some of that stuff left and will rechrono the 9mm corbons when I bring the G26 out next.

Flip.

 

[P95Carry]

Flip .. the Cor-Bons are tho IIRC quite hot . and count as +P yeah? Well .. if vel anything to go by I think they are.

The R9 is std pressures only so - won't be able to run Cor-Bons thru that. Still tho - all data is worth knowing .. I would consider using those in my P95 for sure.

 

[DBR]

Jim March:

A couple of years ago I tested 158gr Federal 38spl +P LSWCHP out of a 2 1/4" Ruger SP101 (.006-.007 cylinder gap) and from a 3" Ruger SP101 (.007-.008 cylinder gap). Ohler 35 chrono at 10'.

2 1/4" 5 shots:
Hi 796
Lo 764
Ex 32
Av 776
SD 12

3" 5 shots:
Hi 860
Lo 821
Ex 39
Av 835
SD 15

IMHO 3" is much better for 38spl and between 3" and 4" gun characteristics can make more difference than barrel length. Powder position is good for about 30-40 fps out of these guns in my experience.

 

[flip180]

Jim here are the two .38+P's out of the M66

Well, I'd just rather carry the .38's in the .38 and the .357's in the .357. Here are the two rounds that I chrono'd out of my 2-1/2 inch M66 today while out at the range. The recoil was just a tough lighter in my perceived recoil than that of some 158gr handloaded .357's which, I chono'd out of the M66 today also.

Speer 135gr.+P .38 JHP's
Hi=953 fps. Lo=929 fps. Avg=941 fps. Sd=9 fps. Es=24 fps.

Remington 158gr.+P LSWCHP's
Hi=902 fps. Lo=861 fps. Avg=884 fps. Sd=11 fps. Es=41 fps.

Flip