Chrome Silicon Wire..... the future of gunsprings!?

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WonderNine

member
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
4,331
Location
always offline!
The sales pitch is that chrome silicon wire is 1000X more resistant to losing its "memory" compared to typical spring steel. Perhaps this will be the end of "weak" mag/gun springs.

I received a chrome silicon wire spring for a 30 round AR-15/M-16 mag in trade last year from a guy who makes these springs, this is how I first found out about them. He claims the army is switching to these springs. Now I see them available on Gunbroker the past few months.

I have noticed that Pro Mag is now using chrome silicon wire springs in their EXCELLENT 10 round Mini-14 magazines.

My attempts to contact Mec-Gar to find out if they will be switching to csw for their mags has been unsuccessful, they don't seem to answer their phone anymore and they never did send out my replacement parts :rolleyes:

Has anybody seen csw in any new guns they purchased recently?

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this new development that doesn't seem to be getting alot of press....
 
Chrome Silicon Wire..... the future of gunsprings!!!????

Yes they are...


And the Temporal Continuity Comission would very much like them back.

They weren't supposed to be invented untill 2016.
Sorry, slow day at work. Feelin' punchy... :D

Pictures dumped, OT and spurious waste of bandwidth...Sam
 
Last edited by a moderator:
never heard of them - but it sounds really cool.

The springs are the weakest link in making a gun that lasts a really really long time.

I remember reading about tricky alloys in the 1980s that you could form to a shape, then bend them all up and when you heated them, they would pop (sometimes violently) back to their original shape.

I wish I knew more about metal, its very interesting.

What is the role of the silicon? is it part of the alloy or just a coating?
 
Wondernine,
there is no MWO (Modification WOrk Order) to change the springs in M16 magazines. I don't know if they have changed the standards for the springs in new magazines though.

Jeff
 
Okay...

Here, to make up for it:

Chrome Silicon springs are certainly what I'd want if a huge gun ban came down and I had to cache weapons & mags, or couldn't count on ever getting legal spare parts again. I guess they've been using CS springs in engine valves for awhile. I'd guess that they get compressed a heck of a lot more than any firearm spring ever does, even full-auto.

Anything that enhances a firearms durability does have a potential upside for the future generations that inherit them. I do seriously wonder, political issues notwithstanding, how many 20/21st century arms will still be servicable, and in what condition 120 years from now, compared to arms from 1883.
 
Are you talking about chrome silicon "steel" ? If so it's probably 9254 -a chrome-silicon spring steel - .54% Carbon, .70% chrome, 1.4% silicon . Nothing new , a good spring steel and if heat treated well will work . Sounds like they just decided to hype it up a bit for those who never heard of it .
 
Wondernine, what's Kill Bill? Like Killbilly? :confused:

I have a set of strings for my guitar that have Goretex on them. Supposedly they last longer and resist corrosion, etc. etc. etc.

Is this supposed to be on the same principle?
 
I remember seeing an ad about high chrome content gun springs... can't remember the company name or web site though... Promised no spring set and longer lasting memory of the original shape.

Pick up an American Handgunner if you have one handy, small side ad.
 
WonderNine -

Nowlin Guns in Claremore, Oklahoma, is using chrome silicon springs in their 1911s, and you can also buy their Multi-Spring Recoil Systems for Glocks and 1911 which feature chrome silicon springs.

Their guns get really good reviews!
 
Ah ha, www.ismi-gunsprings.com the site is broken though... read more here at http://www.topglock.com/catalog/recoil.htm about the "ISMI difference"

"ISMI premium springs are manufactured exclusively with certified aerospace specification alloys; stainless or chrome silicon. Then our springs are heat treated, shot peened and stress relieved after winding to enhance performance and durability. Our springs utilize the same design and manufacturing technology as used in Indy Car and Formula One racing. In a typical 500 mile race, a valve spring in an Indy Car will go through more than 2,500,000 compression cycles. Consideration of factors such as modulus, wire diameter, mean diameter, active coils, total deflection, spring relaxation, maximum service temperature, and operating environment; results in you having modern spring technology available for your pistol."

Etc etc...
 
Okay, I just hooked up my scanner. I don't have any webspace to upload files to right now, so I just used an OCR program to show you the sales pitch I got. Oh duh, I just remembered I can attach files here. Well anyways, here it is:


==================================================


MURPHY RESEARCH

Next Generation AR-15 Magazine Springs:

Most AR-1 5 magazine springs are made of music D-wire, also known as music string wire. It is good wire. Barry Manilow has a piece of it in his piano. You judge the results.

Government contract magazine springs are made of 17-7 stainless wire. It is more corrosion resistant than music wire. So far so good.

There is one fly in the ointment (isn’t there always?). After repeated or continuous compression these springs lose memory of their expanded state (i.e. take a set), and lose much of their ability to expand. Your magazine then exhibits a decreased or absent ability to feed. This is an annoyance on the range, but flat out sucks in the middle of a firefight.

Murphy Research Next Generation magazine springs are made of chrome silicon wire. Chrome silicon wire has 1000 times more memory than music wire or 17-7 stainless wire. They are just not inclined to take a set. You can load a magazine with a Murphy Research Next Generation spring and it will reliably feed after twenty years.

We apply a zinc phosphate (Parkerzing) finish to our springs. That provides 72 hours of corrosion protection in a salt spray environment Don’t store your magazines on the deck of a boat on the ocean for more than a three-day weekend.

Murphy Research Next Generation magazine springs. Load your magazines, and your next generation can use them with confidence.

Oh, by the way, forget about downloading your magazines to 28/18 rounds. Murphy Research Next Generation magazine springs will feed 30/20 rounds all day long without a belch.

====================================================
 

Attachments

  • chromesilicon.jpg.bmp
    101.1 KB · Views: 80
Wondernine,

It's a good sales pitch, but it's just that, a sales pitch. Any spring only has so many compressions and contractions in it before it wears out. I have USGI 20 and 30 round magazines that I'm sure have 10s of thousands of compression/expansion cycles in them and the springs work fine. The aluminum feed lips are the weak point in these magazines not the springs.

Oh, by the way, forget about downloading your magazines to 28/18 rounds. Murphy Research Next Generation magazine springs will feed 30/20 rounds all day long without a belch.
Click to expand...

This is just perpetuating an AR15/M16 myth. The magazines always functioned loaded to full capacity. The practice of downloading them was started to keep soldiers and Marines from overloading them. They will take 21 and 31 rounds respectively, but will not function loaded that way. When the M16 first hit the field ammunition was often issued in 20 round cardboard boxes and not on stripper clips. It was easy for the soldier to put more then 20 rounds into the magazine and set up a malfunction. The load 18 was the command's way of making sure that didn't happen. Once ammo became available on stripper clips, many units discontinued the practice of downloading magazines. Many currently active trainers advocate downloading your magazines, but to make them easier to seat on a closed bolt, not because they are unreliable fully loaded. In fact one of the benefits of the new HK steel magazine is that it's a little longer allowing you to easily insert the magazine with the bolt closed when it's fully loaded.

I think I'm going to continue to use my USGI magazines and take the money I could spend on retrofitting the springs and buy more ammo to practice with.

Jeff
 
A gunsmith I know says these are the best springs you can get, and they last longer. Thing is, many gunspring companies who use good old fashioned wire don't want you to know that because:

a) they don't produce them, and
b) they require less frequent updates

That said, some people swear by the standard springs and I can't argue with them.
 
I think it's suppose to keep it's "spring memory" a lot better. (your k, in kx if you remember your physics)

That said, If Skunky says they are tactical, then I will consider them, otherwise, nope.
 
Any spring only has so many compressions and contractions in it before it wears out.
Click to expand...

Yes, but are you saying spring steel and chrome silicon wire are the same thing? Sure doesn't appear so to me.

Yea, followers and feed lips wear out, but if the spring is golden, then at least that's one less thing you have to worry about. And how does spring steel compare in temperature extremes like sub-zero weather?
 
I don't know enough about metalurgy to know if chrome silicon wire springs last longer then plain carbon steel springs. I do know that after almost 30 years experience with the M16 rifle, that the springs in the magazines have never been an issue. Feed lips, yes...springs no.

As for cold weather performance, the military tests all of it's equipment in every climatic extreme there is. If the current issue springs were not reliable after being cold soaked they would not have been purchased.

I'm not saying that chrome silicon wire springs aren't better then the standard springs. I'm wondering if they are enough of an improvement to justify the cost and time to change them out. The line about the magazines not being reliable fully loaded is the big clue that they are hyping things a bit. Because it's not true. I'm always suspicious of advertising that says the product solves a non-existant problem.

I know a lot of people who have spent a lot of money on green followers and Wolff springs to fix magazines that are functioning fine. Sure the new production magazines are coming out with green followers, but there has been no recall of the old ones. Why do you think that is? It's because the performance with the green followers is not improved enough to justify the cost.

If the new magazines are in fact being made with chrome silicon wire springs, that's one thing, but it's an issue like the green followers, is the improvment enough to justify the cost in changing over the existing ones? To me it's probably not.

Jeff
 
Wondernine , if a steel is used for springs it is by definition a 'spring steel'. The 92xx steels have long been used for springs. And to repeat comments that I have made on other threads - springs , if heat treated properly DO NOT 'take a set '. This is one of the ever reappearing urban myths.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

O
  • Locked
"Blue Steel" AR magazines
Replies
4
Views
570
jmr40
jmr40
R
  • Locked
Braided AR-15 Magazine Spring Report...
Replies
18
Views
2K
Maverick223
Maverick223
NWcityguy2
  • Locked
AR Buffer Spring Shoot Out
Replies
11
Views
4K
clearcut
C
R
  • Locked
Sig magazine quality
Replies
12
Views
1K
riceboy72
R
C
  • Locked
Check Mate (Checkmate) Mags - a tale of two reputations
Replies
3
Views
3K
The-Fly
T
Back
Top