Chrono data from my new .223 & .45 reloads

[RobZ71LM7]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Well I recently bought a chrono since I started reloading for .223 (my first rifle reloads). It was around 50* F this morning.

Case Length 1.251"
OAL 2.220"
Hornady 55 FMJBT
RP brass
H335 powder
CCI std small rifle primers
16" Stag Arms 1/9 barrel

24 grains 10 shots

Lo 2744
Hi 2886
Avg 2815
Es 136.4
SD 42.46

24.8 grains 10 shots

Lo 2869
Hi 2926
Avg 2894
Es 56.9
SD 19.69

25.0 grains 10 shots

Lo 2909
Hi 2984
Avg 2942
Es 75.31
SD 25.63

25.3 grains 4 shots (I didn't load a bunch since this is the max spec according to the book)

Lo 3011
Hi 3048
Avg 3028
Es 36.41
SD 15.26

25.6 grains 4 shots (for some reason the velocity isn't any greater-perhaps I made a mistake)

Lo 3004
Hi 3052
Avg 3025
Es 47.72
SD 20.85

For Comparison 10 shots of M193 Guat '00 headstamp from AIM Surplus

Lo 3007
Hi 3122
Avg 3077
Es 114.8
SD 29.63

Now for .45

Federal Brass
Winchester LP primers
Rainier 230 grain plated bullets
1.260 oal
.470" crimp
Winchester 231
S&W 1911 4" BBL

5.0 grains 10 shots

Lo 657.4
Hi 709.3
Avg 679.8
Es 51.9
SD 17.32

5.1 grains 10 shots

Lo 686.8
Hi 725.6
Avg 706.8
Es 38.79
SD 15.45

5.2 grains 10 shots

Lo 685.8
Hi 753.5
Avg 727.2
Es 67.67
SD 20.56

Anyone care to comment? Like I said I'm new to this and am not sure how useful a tool std dev is for developing loads. Also I don't yet have a concept for what a typical spread is in good ammo. The only .223 reference I had on hand was Guat M193 which is posted above.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Average velocity and Extreme Spread are the two that I concern myself with. I also only use 5 shot string to figure this. 10 is OK though.

.45 ACP Colt 1911
Win cases
185 grain JHP (Rem)
No crimp
CCI-300 primed
5.0 grains W-231
ES-40.8 AV-730 fps

Same as above
WLP primed
5.5 grains W-231
ES-34.5 AV-810 fps

Same as above
WLP primed
5.7 grains W-231
ES-32.4 AV-850 fps

Your loads are running about right or as expected.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I seem to get better consistency in velocity with CCI mag primers and H-335 out of my 16" Oly. Drop back down to 24.0 and work your way up using the mag primers.

I use 25.0gr under 55gr FMJ's for plinking.

 

[GunAdmirer]

Your .223 results are pretty much in line with my own testing using the same barrel length. Actually, your velocities are slightly higher than my own tests at your temperature. Different barrel and chrono could be the main culprits.

I hate to disagree with Lennyjoe but am not sure using magnum primers is the best idea under normal conditions.

The latest Speer manual recommends mag primers for H335 and other ball type powders in .223. However, no other manual or source recommends mag primers for ball powders in .223 - not even Hodgdon. Following Speer's data, I've used CCI magnum and Arsenal magnum primers and think I've experienced premature primer flattening especially in hotter temperatures.

Logically, using a mag primer speeds up the intended powder burn rate because of the hotter and longer primer flame. You will achieve max pressure with a lower powder charge resulting in lower velocities. That's why you have to work it back up. I've got more testing to do, but I think you can get better results and perhaps higher velocities with standard primers except under extremely cold conditions.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I've tried both Winchester small rifle primers and the CCI mag primers and by running them thru the chrono and grouping at 100yds the mag primers worked better in my set up.

That's why we reload, to see which combo works best in our shooting platform. Enjoy.

 

[RobZ71LM7]

I was actually planning on throwing some magnum primers into the mix next time. I did read where some liked the magnum primers better with H335.

 

[rg1]

My results with H335, different gun, barrel length, and primer.
Hornady 55 fmj
RP once fired brass
RP 7 1/2 primer
H335 powder
col 2.220"
Colt AR 1/7 twist 20" barrel
Outside temperature 90 degrees
1. 23.2 grains of H335---2863
2. 24-------------------2975
3. 24.5-----------------3080
4. 25.3-----------------3162 listed as max and showed no high pressure signs.

 

[RobZ71LM7]

Case Length 1.251"
OAL 2.220"
Hornady 55 FMJBT
RP brass
H335 powder
CCI std small rifle primers
16" Stag Arms 1/9 barrel


24.3 .82+.76 cc

MIN 2752
MAX 2817
AVG 2780
ES 65.35
SD 31.2
GROUP SIZE @ 50 YARDS 1.5"

24.65 .88+.71 cc

2746
2781
2762
34.71
15.39
3 shots in a 1/2" but two were fliers-1"

25.2 grains 1.02+.61 cc

2916
3020
2954
104
43.18
75" group

25.5 grains .95+.71 cc

2951
2985
2970
34.22
14.03

no group size for this one

 

[RobZ71LM7]

Case Length 1.251"
OAL 2.260"
Hornady 55 V-MAX
RP brass
H335 powder
CCI std small rifle primers
16" Stag Arms 1/9 barrel


24.3 .82+.76 cc

2671
2728
2706
57.8
23.15
.8" group

24.65 .88+.71 cc

2743
2758
2751
14.38
6.85
<0.4" group!!! bigsmile.gif

25.2 1.02+.61 cc

2822
2920
2857
97.39
37.24
0.5"x1" groups string left to right-I think it was shooter error they are all centered vertically

25.5 .95+.71 cc

2908
3018
2953
110.2
40.8
groups opened up to an 1" or so.


BTW the numbers are high, low, avg, ES, SD. All groups are 5-shot groups at 50 yards. I was using an Eo-tech. I'm pretty happy but I want to try CCI magnum primers next time so I can hopefully get more consistency at some loads. I've heard from some that H335 works better with a magnum primer, but I was really pleased with the V-Max performance above with 6.85 fps for the standard deviation. All ammo was loaded on a lee press and charged with a pro auto disk. All shooting was by me-I'm sure there is more accuracy given I didn't have any magnification. It was 40* something degrees outside.

BTW I think the charge weights are off for some reason my lee scale gave me issues. I'm going to reweigh the volumes listed using my new digital scale (it's awesome). I bought the upper level PACT Digital Precision Powder Scale which is a step up from the BBK.

 

[Critter183]

What are you folks using for a chronograph?

I just did a search and found this one:

http://www.eabco.com/chronyshooting.htm

Any good?

 

[Lennyjoe]

F1 Chrono on a tripod.

 

[dmftoy1]

Thanks for posting that . . . .I see about the same Std Deviations you are with my loads under 24 grains of H335 (23, 23.5) . . .I might try pushing up closer to 24-24.6 to see if i can get the deviations down. I get really good std. deviations on my pistol ammo but I haven't yet with the .223.

 

[Critter183]

I just ordered one from the place that I linked in the above post. They seemed to have the best price by far for that F1. Came to $75 with shipping.

 

[Critter183]

Now I have another question for the chrono crew.

I have one coming. I read up on it's operation, and I am a little perplexed by the distance from the rifle that they say you should use. 10 feet for smaller calibers, 15 for larger.

That seems like a lot to me. I have seen guys using these at the range, and I seem to remember them setting them up about 5 feet or so out from the bench. What distances do you guys use?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

 

[The Bushmaster]

8 to 10 feet rifle and hangun... Can't go wrong.

The reason for the varying distances is the pressure wave generated by the rifle leaving the muzzle. Some chronographs can see that pressure wave as the bullet and give you a false reading or no reading...

 

[taliv]

the important thing is that you put it the same distance from the muzzle every time. since i don't take a tape measure, i use the cable as a reference. i put the chrony just far enough away so that the drooping cable barely touches the ground.

i believe it's around 13' but i've never measured

 

[Critter183]

Thanks fellas. I can't wait to get it now and give it a whirl.

I would have gotten one years ago if I knew that were only $75 delivered. lol

I figured they were a fancy toy in the grand range.

 

[RobZ71LM7]

Here's some data from today (60*F). All of the shooting was from my new RRA 20" 1/8 twist varmint upper. All primers were plain CCI std small rifle. Brass trimed to 1.750" and all OAL's @ 2.250".

---------------------------------------------------------------

H4895
69 grain Sierra Match King

23 gr charge

Lo 2728
Hi 2780
Avg 2761
Es 52.03
Sd 22.04

23.5 grain charge

Lo 2824
Hi 2879
Avg 2838
Es 54.43
Sd 23.32

24 gr charge

Lo 2813
Hi 2858
Avg 2838
Es 44.51
Sd 19.46

24.5 grain charge

Lo 2943
Hi 2970
Avg 2959
Es 26.73
Sd 11.18


---------------------------------------------------------------

H4895
77 grain Sierra Match King


22 gr charge

(no data chrono didn't pick it up)

22.5 gr charge

Lo 2665
Hi 2751
Avg 2678
Es 36.28
Sd 13.67

23.0 grain charge

(no data chrono didn't pick it up)
Most accurate of 77gr smk & 4895 loads

---------------------------------------------------------------

Reloader-15
77 grain Sierra Match King

23.5 gr charge

Lo 2666
Hi 2712
Avg 2686
Es 45.41
Sd 21.09

24.0 grain charge

Lo 2731
Hi 2753
Avg 2742
Es 22.37
Sd 8.00

24.5 grain charge

Lo 2784
Hi 2804
Avg 2796
Es 19.99
Sd 8.18

Next weekend I'm going to do some experiments with a few loads between 24-24.5 gr of Reloader 15 behind 77 gr SMK's.

 

[nitesite]

I saw this thread come up this afternoon. I happened to do some velocity-only testing just yesterday (the 17th).

Bushmaster XM15-E2s 20" Stainless HBAR 1:9"
H335 26.4 grains** (trying to duplicate 5.56mm pressure/velocity)
Lake City NATO brass once fired/untrimmed
Remington 6 1/2 primers
Hornady 55-gr BTFMJ w/ cannelure

Altitude 669' ASL
Temperature 71-degrees

Don't recall the COL, but I happen to have the paper tape stats/velocities from my chrony's printer with me at work. Also, I chose not to do an accuracy test as this shooting area is only 750-feet from my house, but is too short a shooting distance to arrive at any conclusions.



Not bad to be able to load five and get the results in minutes, huh?

26.4 gr H335 (**NOT A RECOMMENDED LOAD) Lake City Brass

LO 3178.82
HI 3215.13
AV 3198.35
ES 36.31
SD 14.24

This came very close to my chronographed numbers for Federal Lake City 5.56mm NATO headstamped '01 of 3208/3246/3229/37.86/16.03

 

[crux]

Rob, I would be interested to know what kind of accuracy you were getting from those Reloader-15 loads.

 

[RobZ71LM7]

crux,

I was getting less than a 5-shot groups of a touch less than 1/2" or so at 50 yards with the RL-15/77 gr SMK loads. The 4895 performed about a same maybe a little worse. I probably could've shot better (rest wasn't that steady nor am I) and at a further distance, however I was more interested in finding a ballpark to focus on. I loaded up a bunch of 77gr smk's with 24, 24.3, and 24.5 grains last night and I'm going to shoot next at 100 yards. In general it seemed to shoot the best with hotter 4895/rl-15 loads that filled the case. I'm using RP brass with no crimp.