Chronograph 45acp from Carbine

[357mag357]

I chronographed some 45acp out of a Beretta CX4 Storm with a 16.6 inch barrel. It was 41 degrees the day I did the shooting. I used a Master Chony to measure the speed. I tried three different powders and one factory load. I also used a S&W 1911 with a five inch barrel for the control. The first load was 4.8g of TiteGroup with a 230g copper plated bullet from Xtreme. Mixed cases.

CX4: Low 836.0
High 904.0
Ave 862.9
ES 68.47
SD 26.66

1911: Low 657
High 720
Ave 694
ES 62.58
SD 26.57

Second load was 6.5g AutoComp with 200g copper plated Xtreme bullet.

CX4: Low 911.0
High 969.4
Ave 941.1
ES 58.45
SD 24.75

1911: Low 667.6
High 815.9
Ave 744.0
ES 148.3
SD 52.55

Third load was 7.6g Long Shot 200g copper plated Xtreme bullet.

CX4: Low 1013
High 1075
Ave 1051
ES 62.29
SD 23

1911: Low 786.7
High 851.8
Ave 820.1
ES 65.05
SD 25.41

Last was Remington factory 230g hollow point bullets. I only had enough to run the CX4.

Low 910.8
High 929.3
Ave 919.3
ES 18.53
SD 7.28

I am surprised at how slow the Titegroup performed using the 1911. Hodgdon list 4.8g which is the max should be 855 and my ave was 694. I exceeded that using the CX4. The same with Autocomp. I was closer to the minimum load range with 6.5g and my average of 744 was well below the 856 Hodgdon list using a 5 inch barrel. The CX4 was well about at 941.1. Finally the Longshot load of 7.6g. Slightly less than full load, I was far short of hodgdon list of 1013. My 1911 was 820. The CX4 average was just above at 1051. The Factory load average 919.3 using the CX4. I will have to run it with the 1911 to see the difference. So I conclude with questions, Are Hodgdon FPS data listed to high or is my Chronograph not calibrated correctly? I chose the 3 powders because I wanted a fast, medium and slow powder. Thanks.

 

[oldpapps]

This may not be what you want to hear, but...

A few years ago I ran a series of tests.
The set up:
I loaded new Star brass with same lot CCI large pistol primers, charged with the same lot of 231 powder and 200 grain lead SWC bullets from the same box (these bullets weighed in at an average of 204 grains). All loads were loaded at the same time and magazines filled with random selection from a bucket of loose loads.
Three 1911A1 weapons with 5 inch barrels were tested. The oldest one, by serial number is older by some 4,000. The next is some 2,000 younger still, all by the serial numbers. Also tested was a 5 1/2 inch S&W 1917 revolver, very well used. And a Marlin CampGun with a 16 1/2 inch barrel.

Number of rounds fired, 42 tests loads for each weapon. That's 6, 7 round mags each with one round left over for the revolver, making a final 6.

Velocities at 10 feet, all shot on the same day, temperatures from 81 to 85 degrees, bright sun, 39% humidity and 30.19 MB pressure.

I loaded 6 magazines, fired each with only the delay of stopping to record the reading and changing magazines. The revolver was loaded, fired, loaded and fired.

An average of all rounds fired in each weapon gave these results (there were NO abnormal readings from any of the 210 rounds):

Oldest 1911A1 - 894.45 FPS
Middle 1911A1 - 869.16 FPS
Newest 1911A1 - 867.2 FPS

Marlin - 1045.5 FPS

S&W 1917 - 879.61 FPS

It should be noted that the 'middle 1911A1' was my carry weapon for several years on the PD and has by far the most rounds down the tube. None of these weapons had any malfunction or leading.

What can we learn from this?
Simple, each weapon is a world of it's own. Only generalities can be said about any grouping of weapons.

 

[357mag357]

Thanks OldPapps for replying.

 

[joneb]

For a straight blow back 45acp 16" barrel the 185gr jacketed bullets with powders such as Unique, AA #5, and VV n340 give me very good results in my Marlin Camp 45. 200gr Extreme RN plated have also ran well.
I have found the lighter bullets=more velocity with such guns, heavier bullets will show less gain given the extra barrel length.

 

[Toprudder]

I've have done a lot of chrono work on test loads, and I rarely get anywhere near the advertised velocities listed by the powder manufacturers. I usually get numbers closer to the Speer or Hornady load manuals - but not always.

 

[cfullgraf]

It seems, most handgun load data is a bit optimistic when it comes to velocity. There are several reasons, one being a different firearm or test set up from the consumer.

Velocity out of my Kahr Thompson is only about 150 to 200 fps faster than the same 45 ACP ammunition out of a 5" M1911. I have similar results with my 9x19 handguns and carbine.

So, small hand gun cartridges do not benefit, velocity wise, much from longer barrels.

 

[Schwing]

Thanks for posting your results. I am actually surprised that you see as large a gain in FPS from the CX4 as you do. I have read for a long time that .45 doesn't benefit much or at all with a longer barrel. To me, 150+ FPS isn't unsubstantial. I am sure that the action is partly involved as well.

I have done some similar testing with 9MM loads between handguns and carbines and came up with similar results. When I moved to .357, the gap went as high as 300FPS between a 5" hand gun and a 16" carbine.

I have always wondered about .45 but don't have a carbine chambered in it yet.

 

[1SOW]

Powder Company TEST Barrel

"Tested using a 5" bbl", OR Tested using a 4" bbl" is typical. Don't forget that powder companies aren't often using a firearm. This is one test bbl:

 

[chris in va]

I see about 200fps extra from my CX4 9mm compared to my P01. I vaguely remember an article stating 45 has a lot of barrel friction and actually slows down past a certain barrel length, possibly 12"?

 

[LiveLife]

I recently got a Just Right carbine in 45ACP with 9mm/40S&W conversion kits.

I have Titegroup/Longshot on hand and could chrono some 200 gr plated RN loads to compare (my last bottle of AutoComp PIF to Dudedog but could try to find some).

I currently load 45ACP loads with W231/HP38 and Red Dot/Promo. I have plans to test BE86 in 45ACP so I can post my range test results.

 

[LightningMan]

Here's an interesting web site: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/
You may be interested in looking at. LM

 

[Dudedog]

I loaded and shot some 200gr .45 APC with Longshot, bet it would work great in the carbine.

I found Longshot worked well in 9mm and .45 for heavy loads, not as well (but still ok) for medium loads.

I normaly load those calibers light-medium so I donated my Loud(long)shot to BDS for him to try in .40SW because I had heard it works great there.

It seems to get the highest vels out of 200 and 230 .45 APC on Hodgdons list, interesting to see some more results from it in a carbine.

PS: In addition to the Autocomp I got some other powders from BDS as well. THANKS!! Now I have a selection and don't know what to do with myself......

 

[357mag357]

I just ordered some 185 in 45acp. Will retest using the same 3 powders with the lighter bullet. Will post the result once I get them.