Chronograph Question

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I can't understand how you managed to heat a barrel?

A few months back I did a simple test. I measured barrel surface temperatures. I also monitored ambient air temp. Ambient air was 73 degrees F. I was shooting approximately 1 round every 45 seconds to 1 min. I shot a total of 40 rounds. During the first ten rounds the barrel surface temp, just forward of the chamber, increased from ambient to 95 degrees F. (hardly all that hot). Once it got there it would vary about 2 degrees F between shots but never continued to climb.

The load was 26.1 grains of H335 under 53 grain Sierra match bullets. Four different primers were used (ten shots per primer). The rifle was based on a Remington 700 VSSF (Heavy Barrel).

A chronograph is not going to tell you much. You can likely get more pressure data looking at the spent cases and the feel of ejecting them. While a chronograph is a nice to have tool it is not really a needed necessity.

Heck I still can't figure how you got "scorching hot"? What exactly is scorching hot with a numeric value. Scorching for me is you can't touch it, like a boiling point of water around sea level.

This was my setup and looks like I was at about 88.4 F when I took the picture.
Barrel%20Temp%201.png


Ron
 
If the OP was shooting in the bright sunlight, heating by the could make the rifle barrel too hot touch on its own.

Add in a few rounds sent down range and I can see a scorching hot barrel you could fry an egg on.

But, the OP could have been shooting from an air conditioned structure as well.
 
Yeah and we have been hitting the 90s around here in Ohio. I guess that could be "scorching"? A rifle left in the sun can warm up pretty quick.

Ron
 
it was about 90 degress last night when I shot and I was out in the open. the gun sat on the bench for about 15 min before I fired. it was hot enough that I couldn't touch the barrel for more than say 2-3 seconds and it got uncomfortable. it felt almost like when you lean your arm out the window on a hot sunny day and the door burns your arm.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
it was about 90 degress last night when I shot and I was out in the open. the gun sat on the bench for about 15 min before I fired. it was hot enough that I couldn't touch the barrel for more than say 2-3 seconds and it got uncomfortable. it felt almost like when you lean your arm out the window on a hot sunny day and the door burns your arm.
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If the rifle is getting that hot to the touch it could explain some strange groups. If the stock is reacting to the heating effects it could be placing pressure points on your barrel. Weird things can happen.

Ron
 
its got the cheap plastic stock on it now but I see boyds offers one with vents cut in the side of the stock. when I shoot I try to let it cool as much as possible but when you get off work at 5pm, go home eat, change, gather gear and get to the range its 730pm and shooting stops at 9-930.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
its got the cheap plastic stock on it now but I see boyds offers one with vents cut in the side of the stock. when I shoot I try to let it cool as much as possible but when you get off work at 5pm, go home eat, change, gather gear and get to the range its 730pm and shooting stops at 9-930.
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I know that deal all too well. Very seldom on a weekday could I get a range trip in. Even then, it was a fight for the precious daylight hours of summer.
Anyway, lately leave something out and it gets hot. I did my experimenting in the spring. The stock moving with heat could explain a few things.

Ron
 
No. You definitely do not NEED a chrono, you might like one though. I have never had one or used one. I have always loaded by the book or books. The techies at Sierra will help if you need them.
 
j1 said:
No. You definitely do not NEED a chrono, you might like one though. I have never had one or used one. I have always loaded by the book or books. The techies at Sierra will help if you need them.
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I believe if you read back through every chronograph related thread the overwhelming consensus is that the chronograph falls under "nice to have" and not necessary. :) My chronograph was a gift from my wife 20 plus years ago because a friend told her I may like to have one so her and the dogs at the time got me one for Christmas. All of our dogs have always been very benevolent. Had Kathy not gotten me one I likely as of today would not have one. :)

Ron
 
well its official than I will save my money and spend it on powder, bullets, etc.
 
it felt almost like when you lean your arm out the window on a hot sunny day and the door burns your arm.
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It was 100 in Dallas yesterday, I rolled my widow down to pay a parking attendant and the underside of my upper arm touched the chrome trim. I had to apologize to the attendant and my wife for the Tourette-like profanity that followed the incident.

I'll say this. As I've begun shooting the 500 yard lane at my range the chrono data I've gathered, in conjunction with ballistic AE app on my smart phone, has saved me a lot of walking down to the target to see where my rounds are hitting, then walking back to make adjustments.

I plugged in the chrono data and got 43 clicks of elevation on my 1/4 MOA turrets and was on my 12" target with the first shot, and only 2 clicks from center.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
thinking I need to get a chrony but money is very very tight but I also don't want problems with over pressure.
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Can you develop accurate loads without a chrono? Yes, many people have done it for decades.

final thought is would I be okay with using this

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/626107/caldwell-ballistic-precision-chronograph
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I use the same Caldwell chrono in the link and have been happy with it as using the app with my Samsung android phone is convenient at the bench to log groups. Having velocity data helps me verify my loads for consistency.

But for me, ultimately it's the holes on target that guides me towards the most accurate loads.
 
One of these days I'm gonna get one of those cheap laser thermometers from harbor freight to keep tabs on barrel temperature, but until then I'll simply restrict my rate of fire. As for a chronograph, I couldn't imagine developing a load without one, especially with a barrel that's significantly different from the 24" test barrel. Case in point: with a clean 30" barrel and 55gr bullets I get 3280 fps starting velocity with 24.4 grains of H4895, yet the published velocity is 3176 with 25 grains. For this reason I've learned to use published velocities as a guideline, even more so than recommended weight of charge (try telling this to the hardhead who's always chart-shopping and looking for an excuse to use hotter charges). The chronograph you're considering may work with an iPhone at the bench but it may also broadcast to others, so consider whether it can be retrofitted with a standard display box later.
 
Spitballer, thank you for the reminder. I have said over and over again I wanted to get an IR temperature gun. my wife found one I liked on Amazon Prime so that is done. If you note in my post #2 I was using a hand held thermocouple indicator and taped my sensor to the barrel using Kapton tape. While bulky it did work. :) Once an expensive instrument the new ones have become really affordable.

Ron
 
I wonder if a shooter could use temperature markers like the Markal Certified Thermomelt HEAT-STIK .... available in 25 degree steps from 100 degrees to 650 degrees ....

The non certified ones have smaller degree spacing ...
 
JimKirk said:
I wonder if a shooter could use temperature markers like the Markal Certified Thermomelt HEAT-STIK .... available in 25 degree steps from 100 degrees to 650 degrees ....

The non certified ones have smaller degree spacing ...
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I don't see why not? Should work just fine for getting you about there as to temperature..

Ron
 
don't forget the ammo. it gets hot quickly when left out in the sun. it gets real hot when left in a hot barrel chamber, too. if you are testing, best to single load you ammo and not leave it in the chamber too long.

murf
 
murf said:
don't forget the ammo. it gets hot quickly when left out in the sun. it gets real hot when left in a hot barrel chamber, too. if you are testing, best to single load you ammo and not leave it in the chamber too long.

murf
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Late November hunting in West Virginia I was using a Remington 7600 chambered in 30-06, not my regular choice for WV. We had my buddy's old Blue a CJ5 Jeep and were driving the back mountain roads, more like driving a cow path. WV DNR does patrol those back roads and having a loaded gun in the vehicle is a bad no, no. My loaded magazine was against the windshield and unknown to me Herman turned on the defrosters.

Nice buck crossed our path and I jumped out and moved down below where I hoped the deer would cross. I knew the magazine felt hot to the touch but put the mag in the rifle and chambered a round. Sure enough along came the buck and I squeezed a round off. When that round lit off that rifle put me on my butt. Hottest (quite literally) 30-06 round I ever fired. Missed the deer and came away with a lesson learned which I should have known better. No clue what temperature those rounds in the magazine reached but I was lucky the rifle stayed in one piece.

Ron
 
I'm still at a loss here. The OP has made many threads about this .223 ammo and I'm still confused. He is claiming flattened and flowing primers with a charge of only 24.0gr H335 and he's using a CCI magnum primer. Still no pictures of those primers be sure they really are bad. Now after only 3 rounds he is claiming a Halle so hot it can't be touched 5 to 7 minutes later. None if this makes sense to me. I'm sorry to say, like I did in other threads, the OP is interpreting things he is seeing incorrectly. (not a criticism)
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I'm still at a loss here. The OP has made many threads about this .223 ammo and I'm still confused. He is claiming flattened and flowing primers with a charge of only 24.0gr H335 and he's using a CCI magnum primer. Still no pictures of those primers be sure they really are bad. Now after only 3 rounds he is claiming a Halle so hot it can't be touched 5 to 7 minutes later. None if this makes sense to me. I'm sorry to say, like I did in other threads, the OP is interpreting things he is seeing incorrectly. (not a criticism)
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The primers weren't completely flattened the only concern I had was the firing pin hole looked really deep on 3 out of 5. I have 500pc of LC brass and I keep all the loads I made in a box with what they are so I can reference them. I have a new firing pin so this could be the issue.

I don't have pics of them because I punched them out to be reloaded again because I'm trying to use the same year and ran out of brass for that lot so all the ones I kept got reused. pretty sure I advised that in the last question about pics. I also think I was at 24.3 or 24.6gr when they started looking a little funny. I shot 24gr benchmark last night and the firing pin holes looked deeper than before it was replaced so im going to chock it up to that.

my range sits right in the middle of a huge open field with benches sitting in the open with no cover and I set the bags up with rifle on them and unloaded the rest of my stuff, signed in, etc which was about 15-20min of the rifle sitting in the hot sun in 90 degree temps. I fired, sat there for a few minutes and checked FB, fired, checked THR, fired and touched the barrel and after about 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi it got uncomfortable.

they all fire great now that I got the seating/lans and sizing issue figured out I just was concerned about the heat. I will admit I get kind of freaked out because I see these I blew my gun apart threads and I get nervous.
 
What was the load? Bullet? COAL? What case?

A chronograph always helpful during load development and for bullet drop estimates. It's obvious to me that this whole question of whether the load is too hot would be answered very quickly if the OP had a chronograph. Anybody that doesn't see the value in using one doesn't fully understand/appreciate the relationship between powder charge, pressure, and velocity.
 
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I fired, sat there for a few minutes and checked FB, fired, checked THR, fired and touched the barrel and after about 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi it got uncomfortable.
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You are lucky, if you truly to put your finger on the gas tube of an AR rifle that long you will leave skin lol. Sorry, I forgot you said the primers were already removed from the brass. My mistake, don't get old!
 
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