Chronograph results from tumbling loaded rounds.

[1SOW]

bds: for tapered pistol case depriming, try 10 parts alcohol to 1 part (or less) wax base case lube (like LEEs case lube) out of a small spray mister. It works and doesn't need to be cleaned. Deprime then tumble for shine. After tumbling they won't need any lube for loading if you have a little polish in the media. POST LOADING, NO CASE CLEANING needed.

 

[snuffy]

Will the bullet move? Without actually testing this, we can only guess what will happen.

I don't have to guess. There just isn't enough force available inside a vibratory tumbler. Do you know how much force is required to seat a bullet? Not even counting the crimp? The neck tension alone is sufficient to hold a bullet from being moved.

The mechanical compound leverage that most presses, generates a great deal of force. Especially at the top of the ram travel. Where in a tumbler do you have that kind of force? I wish an engineer would do a calculation of the pounds of force generated by lets say a rockchucker near the end of the ram travel,(which is where the bullet is seated).

What ever happened to common sense? Is everybody suddenly becoming paranoid? Being aware of safety concerns is one thing, but you're like a drowning man grasping at straws to keep himself afloat.

 

[Walkalong]

I don't have to guess. There just isn't enough force available inside a vibratory tumbler. Do you know how much force is required to seat a bullet? Not even counting the crimp? The neck tension alone is sufficient to hold a bullet from being moved.

Yep.

Well. I made it home finally. It's past my bedtime, but since I could not shoot them today, the least I can do is measure them.

All the non tumbled rounds were from 1.214 to 1.218 O.A.L.

Only one non tumbled round was 1.218. The rest were 1.214 to 1.217

All the tumbled rounds were from 1.214 to 1.217 O.A.L.

I don't see a problem.

(My target O.A.L. was 1.215)

Oh yea. When setting up to load these, the carbide ring popped out of the sizer I normally use on the first case, so I had to use a sizer .002 larger than I normally use, thus making neck tension less than normal. I also only used a very light taper crimp. I removed the bell, and that is about it.

 

[1SOW]

Thanks Walkalong.

Throw out the flyer and the average was identical.

That pretty much answers that question.

I'm sold.

This thread should be used for future like questions; but I don't doubt some 30-06 guy will avow rifle cartridges are different.

Snuffy: maybe he didn't 'Grok' today.

 

[Walkalong]

but I don't doubt some 30-06 guy will avow rifle cartridges are different

Well then they can do there own test.

With any luck the rain will quit tomorrow and I can get some data, but right now they are calling for rain all day Thursday.

 

[snuffy]

Okay, then so will I.

My ranges were from 1.149 to 1.155 for the un-tumbled.

The tumbled ran from1.149 to 1.156. No evidence of the any movement of the bullets. I use a pretty heavy taper crimp applied by a Lee FCD.

 

[LiveLife]

Great, thanks to all.

 

[kelbro]

I have read that many commercial ammo factories tumble their loaded rounds. Don't know that to be a fact but if it is true, there should be no problems. That might also explain why COALs vary so much with factory ammo

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

I have been a proponent of tumbling load ammo for years, and only had 4 gun's blow up becuse of it. One poster asked if the tumblers can handle the extra whieght. I, have left my Franklen Arsonal tumblers (you know the one's that can mysteryously explode, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT PLUGED IN.), run for 3-4 days with loaded .223's, and the tumbler's are still working just fine. YMMV.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, I'm just happy to see Snuffy & Walkalong didn't
shoot their eye out!


BTW: I tumbled 250 rounds of WWII .30 Carbine ammo half a day for a friend a few weeks ago to remove tarnish & oxidation.

No change in length.
He didn't get blown up enough shooting it that I can hardly notice any difference in his appearance or behavior.

rc

 

[jfh]

"I have been a proponent of tumbling load ammo for years, and only had 4 gun's blow up becuse of it...." ​

Well, that does it. I clearly have to start tumbling my reloaded ammo. I've blown up guns without doing it, so it must follow that now I will quit blowing up guns.

Jim H.

 

[Walkalong]

Rains cleared out. Looks like I will be able to shoot them this afternoon.

 

[243winxb]

Shape and size have a profound effect on the burning rate and power generation of a
powder (Meyer 1987).

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2002/mccord.htm#table1 Change the shape , size or coating on the powder, what might happen then? KABOOM?

 

[Walkalong]

Again. That's reloading 101. Size and shape alters burn characteristics.

Thing is, tumbling doesn't alter the size and the shape of the powder.

 

[243winxb]

Deterrents coat the exterior of the propellant granules to reduce the initial burning rate on the surface as well as to reduce initial flame temperature and ignitability. The coating also broadens the pressure peak and increases efficiency. < Tumble this off.

 

[LiveLife]

... waiting for the chrono results.

 

[snuffy]

... waiting for the chrono results.

Okay!

Much nicer day today! Sunsgine, less wind and 32.

So here goes.

Chronograph readings as as follows. I decided to do a 20 round target AND chrono all 20.

Untumbled, control group.20 rounds
av. 833.7
hi. 872.2
lo. 796.3
es. 81.9
sd. 23.8
ad. 18.5

Tumbled. 20 rounds
av. 839.4
hi. 892.7
lo. 800.4
es. 92.3
sd. 22.4
ad.17.3

Next, I fired the last 5 of the 25, just recording the five on the chrono.

Untumbled, 5 rounds
av. 850.8
hi. 880.5
lo. 815.6
es. 65.4
sd. 23.5
ad. 15.1

tumbled, 5 rounds

av. 856.0
hi. 880.9
lo. 819.9
es. 61.0
sd. 26.7
ad. 22.6

Now for the targets First one is the control, non-tumbled;



Yeah, I know it's off to the right and a bit high, but I wasn't about to try to move the rear sight. Had enough trouble keeping my hands warm enough to feel the trigger!



Looks like it's nearly the same to me. Same thing to say about the velocities.

Hound-dog has to go-for-a-ride whenever I go up to the range.

Well there you have it. Shooting was done @ 25 yards, chrono was about 10', pistol is my glock M-22. In case somebody can't be bothered to read the whole thread,(yer ears burnin 243), the load is 4.5 WW.231, berrys 165 RNFP, speer cases, WW sp primers.

Now I know this won't end the controversy. It never will end. If you don't feel comfortable tumbling loaded ammo, then don't!

 

[EddieNFL]

Thanks, Snuffy. Outcome matches every other test I've read.

 

[LiveLife]

+1 for the results. I hope this settles the controversy.

Looks like it was a quiet day at the range (no fighting for lanes)

Thanks for bearing the cold weather for us couch potatoes.

BTW, who said Glocks/40S&W weren't accurate?

 

[snuffy]

Thanks guys, & gals too if you're onlooking.

Looks like it was a quiet day at the range (no fighting for lanes)

It's a private club. The road wasn't even plowed, but my Saturn AWD handled it no problemo. Maybe 6" of crusted snow on the ground.

That's a pretty mild load. The cases were piled a couple feet to my right, recoil was very soft. I may boost that up by half a grain, it might tighten the groups a bit. Also, I'm gonna drift that rear sight to the left a scosh.

 

[Walkalong]

Well. Not any pretty snow here, just wet from all the rain.

I had dismantled one round to take a pic of the powder after being tumbled for just a hair short of 48 hours. I shot one of the non tumbled rounds to warm up the barrel.

That left 24 rounds (3 mags) of each left.

I took a pic of the target I shot with the tumbled rounds. Chrono at 5 yards, target at 7 yards, firing about every two seconds, with longer between mag changes of course.

I picked up three random cases of each group and took a picture of the primers.

68 degrees. Overcast. Humid. 24 rounds each. Winchester brass. WLP primer. 5.1 Grs 700X. X-Treme 225 Gr TrFP @ 1.215 O.A.L. 5" all steel Springfield Armory 1911

Non Tumbled Rounds

Hi - 864
Lo - 808
Avg - 841
ES - 56
SD - 12

Tumbled Rounds - 48 Hrs

Hi - 860
Lo - 812
Avg - 842
ES - 48
SD - 10

I see no difference in the primers. The Hi, Lo, Avg, ES, and SD numbers were all very close to each other.

Between a close look at the powder after tumbling for 48 hours, seeing the primers, and checking the FPS, I see absolutely no evidence of any harm coming to the rounds that were tumbled for 48 hours. That would make me even more sure of rounds tumbled for 15 to 30 minutes to clean up. Well, actually, some of us were sure to begin with. Nice to have the evidence bear it out though. Nothing like good solid evidence.

 

[The Bushmaster]

You guys just wrecked everyone's perfectly good wive's tale.

But do you really believe this will stop the contraversy? I think not.

Very good. Thank you for your dilgence and time.

We need to get this in a sticky so we can reference it when needed.

 

[jfh]

First, a real sincere thank you to Snuffy and Walkalong

for their work testing this hypothesis.

With that in mind, since Snuffy and I experience similar weather, I have at least six recipes I would like him to test...

Jim H.

 

[Seedtick]

+1 & A Couple Of ATTABOYS

The Bushmaster - We need to get this in a sticky so we can reference it when needed.

Yep. Sticky material for sure.

snuffy & Walkalong - Much thanks gentlemen. Above and beyond is the way I see it.

ST

 

[LiveLife]

48 hours in the tumbler! I bet those rounds looked very bright and shiny, almost mirror-like finish!