Chrony Results 45LC and '62 Police

[Foto Joe]

So last Monday the son-in-law and I put Mr. Chrony in the truck and headed for the desert to find out exactly how fast some of this stuff flys when it leaves the barrel. The results were interesting, at least to me.

All powder weights shown are actual weight not volume. Filler weights are by volume only. CB pistol was using Goex 3f, 45LC RNFP is also Goex 3f but 45LC RB (Gallery Loads) are using Swiss 3f.

I'll start with the Uberti 1862 Police which was faster than I would have thought. Loaded with .375 RB, 15gr 3f and 5gr corn meal, no wad, no lube.
Average Velocity: 996
Extreme Spread: 94
Average Impact Energy: 176 ft. lb.

45LC loaded with .454 RB, 35gr 3f and 3gr corn meal, .060 veggie wad between powder and filler with a small amount of SPG lube scraped around the case mouth plus SPG rubbed onto the exposed portion of the RB.
Average Velocity: 1143
Extreme Spread: 81
Average Impact Energy: 406 ft. lb.

45LC loaded with .452 RNFP lead pre-lubed with SPG and 40gr 3f, .060 veggie wad over powder and no filler.
Average Velocity: 1065
Extreme Spread: 72
Average Impact Energy: 592 ft. lb.

What surprised me was the speed on all three. The 45LC for instance, I used to load smokeless for 800fps and call it good. I did not expect BP to be much faster than that. If I recall 1200fps is about all you can safely get out of 45LC. The Police I was also pleasantly surprised by and impressed that the extreme spread on a CB pistol was less than 100 fps. Next time I think I will compress the powder before loading the ball and see if I can get the spread down a little.

If anybody is interested, I have an Excel file that will calculate all the numbers for you including impact energy, average velocity etc. If your computer has Excel on it and you would like the file to use yourself, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

Tomorrow we're gonna head back out into the kitty litter and see if I can miss my Chrony with the H&R and maybe a Navy, my son-in-law swears he won't shoot through the Chrony until I buy a bullet proof model.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

hey cool thanks for the info, but what barrel length was the 62 police?

 

[Oyeboten]

Good work Foto Joe!



I sent off to-day for some 'Swiss' Powder for my Revolvers.


I am especially interested in seeing what it will do with different Bullet Weights in my 3 inch Barrel .45 Colt Revolver, vis-a-vie 'GOEX'.


The 'GOEX' was giving around 800 FPS with 35 Grains and a 260-odd Grain Bullet, if memory serve...which seems pretty respectable to me.

But I am curious to see what the 'Swiss' will do.


Same for longer Barrels, of course.




Anyhoo...nice to see these results!

 

[artee]

Foto Joe: I'm kinda surprised by that .36's velocity also, as I have a Colt 2nd Gen Police.

Are you confident of your chrono results? I often use one particular .22 and lot of ammo as a Check round. If that measures about right, I'm a lot happier with the results of the tests I performed. I never trust a reading if the nearest screen is closer than 10 feet. On close chrono set ups, the escaping gas can outrun the bullet and cause a false trigger. How about 'shade" are both screens being treated "equally". I've seen lots of time of day (sun position) and set up positions that result with the shade from one screen falling on the other, and then one screen with no shade. On my normal range, if I use the benchrest positions to test, I can be assured that from 3:00 to 3:40 PM I will get inaccurate readings, and lots of failure to reads. After that time, things run normal again. Again, with "black powder" and distance to the chrono, you get a lot of particulate spit out that screws with short distance setups.

On a side note, are you trashing your screens/chorno? I have to use a "splatter shield" even at 12 ft to not sandblast the chrono with black powder/pyrodex.

 

[Foto Joe]

Are you confident of your chrono results? I often use one particular .22 and lot of ammo as a Check round. If that measures about right, I'm a lot happier with the results of the tests I performed. I never trust a reading if the nearest screen is closer than 10 feet. On close chrono set ups, the escaping gas can outrun the bullet and cause a false trigger. How about 'shade" are both screens being treated "equally". I've seen lots of time of day (sun position) and set up positions that result with the shade from one screen falling on the other, and then one screen with no shade. On my normal range, if I use the benchrest positions to test, I can be assured that from 3:00 to 3:40 PM I will get inaccurate readings, and lots of failure to reads. After that time, things run normal again. Again, with "black powder" and distance to the chrono, you get a lot of particulate spit out that screws with short distance setups.

On a side note, are you trashing your screens/chorno? I have to use a "splatter shield" even at 12 ft to not sandblast the chrono with black powder/pyrodex.

First off, yes I'm quite confident of the results. I'm using an F-1 Master with the remote readout, which I think has a 15' cord. As far as lighting conditions, currently I'm in the Mohave Desert of Arizona, there ain't nothin but sunshine and it's north of 100 degrees. I'm quite sure that I'm not getting any deviation from the muzzle blast.

Regarding the muzzle blast. I fired 30 rounds through the Chrony and notice no ill effects from powder. I did cover the sensors with clear packing tape as recommended by Chrony and even they had no residue on them when I put it away.

I'm about to load up the shooting box and head out to the range right now before you can fry an egg on the asphalt. Today's toys will again be the Peacemaker as well as a 44 Conf. Navy and an H&R in 38 S&W.

Also, Black Powder Bob.
The '62 Police has a 6 1/2" barrel.

 

[batjka]

I see you've used 15gr of powder and 5gr of filler in '62. Why not go to the full 20grs? Should speed things up a bit.

I am eagerly awaiting your next results.

 

[Foto Joe]

I see you've used 15gr of powder and 5gr of filler in '62. Why not go to the full 20grs? Should speed things up a bit.

I am eagerly awaiting your next results.

I'm trying to remember if I have a spout that throws 20gr, and off the top of my head I don't think that I do. I'll dig through the box and have a look. I'm taking the oldest daughter and grandson 32 & 14 respectively out in the morning.

I Chrony'd my H&R 38 S&W this morning with two different cartridges. I'll run the numbers and try to get them up this afternoon sometime hopefully.

As a side note. We were just setting up out at the range and a gentleman showed up in a Jeep and announced that he had come out to shoot his new stainless '58. He had no clue as he had never owned a BP gun before so we took him through some basics. I fear that he may have already succumbed to the disease by the time he left. The Remmie was a nice piece and I had never fired or loaded one. I'm still an open top guy I guess.

Anyway, I got his email address and I'm going to send him the link to THR, I let him know that there are people on here that can help him out will anything that he needs.

The funny part of the encounter was...I didn't feel a bit guilty about corrupting him. I loaded his Remmie with 30gr 3f Goex for him (he only could be Pyrodex) and let him have at it, the grin got bigger.

 

[TheRodDoc]

he said he used a scale to weigh the powder so that doesn't mean much to us on the net. It could have been 20 grains or 25 grains volume. Who knows!

We really don't know how much powder he put in the 36. Since no ones powder will weigh the same.

He needs to use a volume measure for all tests.

 

[Foto Joe]

he said he used a scale to weigh the powder so that doesn't mean much to us on the net. It could have been 20 grains or 25 grains volume. Who knows!

We really don't know how much powder he put in the 36. Since no ones powder will weigh the same.

He needs to use a volume measure for all tests.

My loads for Cartridge are all weighed using a beam powder scale. Swiss powder of course weighs more than Goex and I will agree that different cans of Swiss may in fact weigh slightly differently depending on the moisture content. But for the sake of arguement lets assume that a sealed container of Swiss weighed next to another sealed container of Swiss would be within a couple of percentage points.

As far as the .36 is concerned, I'm using a 15gr spout which actually throws 15gr of 3f Goex. It's about as exact as I can make it I'm afraid. The problem that I have with straight unweighed volume measures is: Take a volume measure of Swiss, Goex Schuetzen or your favorite real Black Powder. Weigh each of those and you will get different results by volume just like you stated. I have found that Swiss (or at least my Swiss) weighs 11.5% more than Goex. To me that means that if measured by volume your charge is going to be more powerful by approximately the same amount if all things are equal.

The reason I'm posting this information is that there are people like me out there who don't have a clue as to what the ballistics of their guns are. I'm not touting my results as the be all and end all of scientific testing by any means. Your mileage may vary.

I am also going to make the assumption that when I get back to Wyoming and it's not 105 degrees out, my speeds may drop somewhat due to the cooler temps, we shall see.

 

[Oyeboten]

I always thought cooler temps make for faster speeds?

Over long distance, might be cooler slows the Bullet down faster, since the Air is more dense when cool verses hot...but short distances would not matter.

 

[Foto Joe]

Ahhh, here's where I can actually talk intelligently. I used to drive airplanes for a living.

Cooler air means the molecules are closer together ergo the air is thicker, which means airplanes, normally aspirated engines and propellers like cooler air because the performance is better. Bullets on the other hand have more molecules to go through which would slow them down. By the way, cooler temps do make for faster indicated airspeeds in an airplane, more molecules banging into the pitot tube means the needle indicates higher.

What I meant though was that it's my understanding (don't you love those disclaimers?) that BP will burn slightly faster at higher ambient temperatures. Here again, I can't pull up my source other than it came from this forum some time ago. If the person who posted it would chime in and educate us that would be great.

 

[Bluehawk]

Foto...now yer talking my language...just don't try to make everyone fully understand density altitude vs. takeoff distance!

 

[Bluehawk]

As far as temperature goes...cooler weather also means slower burning powder as well as the air density factor.

 

[Bluehawk]

Post repeated itself :banghead:

 

[ClemBert]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the info/data.