Cimarron Firearms Co.

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MachIVshooter

MachIVshooter

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Elbert County, CO
OK, I gotta rant here, as I'm royally P*$$#D by the misrepresentation of where the firearms that Cimarron distributes are made. We know they offer Uberti-made firearms and make a point of that, and when asked, will proudly state that "our firearms are top quality Italian made replicas". True of many or most, no doubt.

But not of the 1878 coach gun.

It's a China made POS, and now that I know that, my pride in ownership is absolutely zero and I feel like throwing my new gun in a basement closet to rust rather than shooting it.

This entire country has sold out to China, but it seemed that most reputable gun makers had refrained. I guess not. Sorely disappointed. I really want to like this gun, too, but I just can't force myself to respect a product that deserves none. After seeing "Polytech PRC", I have the irrational fear of the gun exploding. And I probably won't ever fire it anyway. As with all things China made, I'd just as soon smash it with a U.S.A.-made sledgehammer as I would put it to it's intended use.

OK, sorry for that. It's just all I can do to hold back expletives, and feel that others who may share my dislike of communist manufactured goods might want to know.


I should point out that this was a gift, so I absolutely can't get rid of it. My sister and I exchange firearms almost every year, and it is usually the best part of the Holidays. This year hers is an Armalite M-15 complete lower. The coach gun is what I wanted, having been led to believe it was Italian made (Italy makes good stuff, and after being first and foremost an American, I'm Italian by blood). Unfortunately, there is now nothing I can do. Perhaps I could have researched more carefully and avoided giving any more money to the communists. It's just a lowsy situation, and a hard lesson. Now I just have to resist the urge to destroy it, because that would really hurt my sister, who was very proud to present me with it and totally unaware, as I was, of this problem.

I will, because of this, boycott Cimarron and discourage others from buying their products. Really, anything but China.
 
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Well... if you shoot it with American made ammunition, at least you'd be using it to employ Americans.
 
"...As with all things China made..." You vote for Slick Willy too? Stuff gets made in Asia because it costs less to be made. $30 a week vs $30 per hour.
"...now that I know that..." How was the price? Welcome to the World economy.
 
You vote for Slick Willy too?
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I wouldn't vote Democrat in this life or the next. Not ever. I understand global economics. That doesn't mean I'm OK with having sub-par junk forced on me. I look for USA-made first. If that's not available, European, South American, Japanese. Hell, I'll take Taiwan before China. Unfortantely, because of the Dems, China-made is often the ONLY choice. My hatred for the Dems is that much deeper because of this.

How was the price?
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Alot less than I would have paid for an American made gun, and way too much for Chinese junk. If I'm looking at a gun in a shop and see "Made in China", I will not consider anything else. It could be fifty cents and I'd still put it back on the rack and walk away.

Since it was, as I mention, a gift, as my sister and I have a tradition of such exchanges, the Armalite lower I got her cost $350. So that's basically what the price was as far as I'm concerned.

Overreact much?
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I don't consider this an overreaction. I'm a very calm, calculating individual. Which is why this sucks so much. I know that I have just further contributed to the problem, but it was because I was Deceived. I know few people have the resolve I do to search a long time for the far more expensive American made product. I think that is unfortunate. When it comes to guns, I do own many imported firearms, as there is no US-made equivalent (especially with the milsurps I so love). Even at that, I did not, prior to this, own one single China made weapon.

I will admit, the logical side has fed the emotion to the point that I don't even want to look at this firearm, much less hold or fire it. To do so feels like betraying my country and my own sense of patriotism.
 
I should also mention that the Finish and metal quality are typical of Chinese dookie. The hammers have dimples from the firing pins. And I don't mean just one where it should strike. I mean the hammers hit a different place each time, so there are a half dozen overlapping dings on each one. And that's from factory test firing.

Areas of this NEW gun look like they were rust pitted and refinished, others look like they sanded the blueing with 600 grit.

Basically, it looks like the cheaply made junk that it is. The Chinese take no pride in their products. Fast and cheap are the only criteria, then shove it down our throats in huge quantities and let the low retail price cause people to overlook the shoddy workmanship. That's the MO of the PRC. That said, cimarron has put a fairly premium price tag on these things. Which means that they're making a killing selling junk. For that, they deserve whatever bad rap I can give them. MSRP on this gun is $505.70. I'd be shocked if they pay $150 for them. That is just not right, to sell China made garbage at European-made prices.
 
Welcome to "The Weeds"

This thread is already into politics, and we're not even halfway down the first page.

While I understand the emotional letdown of finding that a product from a first or second tier country was really made in a third or fourth tier country, the politics part of it has no place here.

We're fine with a discussion of where top quality guns are made, where mediocre stuff is made, and where the seriously marginal "buy at your own risk" guns are made.

However, if you can't keep the politics out of it, then we will be closing the thread early.

Let's not go any farther into the weeds, shall we?

 
Degrease it thoroughly...and, from a Boat, throw it in the middle of a Lake.


If your sister ever asks, tell her the truth...and that you know she meant well.
 
A painless solution....

I suggest you sell the gun and buy something you want of equal value. Then tell your sister the manufacturer deceived you as to the guns' origin, you thought it was unsafe, and you traded it for something else. Then you can always remember that your sister got you a _______ for Christmas '09 and forget about the Chinese coach gun. I don't know your sister, but my sister would be totally cool with it. :) She certainly wouldn't want me shooting a gun that I did not think was safe! (She avoids Chinese junk too.) :D
 
Is it made out of plastic? :D

I am sort of in the same boat. I was so excited to know I would be inheriting my gpa's small arsenal and learned that he had a SxS "coach gun", upon inspecting it I found CAI Imports on the barrel.

So I looked it up and found out that it was a Norinco, and was sort of disgusted. I took it to the range and one of the triggers wouldn't drop the hammer on some occasions and the "craftsmanship" was definitely lacking.

I might just give it to my cousin, while I pick up a decent Stoeger SxS to fill the niche. I heard that some of the Chinese M1A's are good when you install a USGI bolt and that Norinco 1911's are excellent with some replaced parts but I will pass on any Chinese firearm. Unfortunately I am stuck buying a majority of products from China nowadays.
 
Without getting into the politics of this

Get over yourself. I do not know what the the quality of this particular shotgun is but I have owned at least three Norinco 97 shotguns in the 8 plus years that I shot Cowboy action. In that same amount of time I owned a bunch of original 97 Winchesters. The Norincos are top notch guns. The Winchesters were 50-100 year old guns that did not have the benefit of new technology. A new Norinco cost about $300 where an original Winchester started there and quickly rose to the $600-$800 range. Do I still buy Winchesters? You bet I do, when I find them undervalued, then I sell them.

Bill Wilson used to build his custom race guns on Norinco base guns 20 years ago because of the quality, until he started making his own frames. Despite what you want to believe, the Chinese are as capable of making a quality product as we are. I remember a time when if you owned a Toyota you were selling this country out to Japan. Toyotas were junk back then but since have risen to be a high watermark in automobiles these days.

If you don't want to own a Chinese made product that is fine and it is certainly your right not too but don't paint all chinese made products with one brush. All chinese guns/ products are not junk. Some are but not all. By the way, you might want to stay out of Wal-mart if you don't want to buy chinese products.
 
Well according to cz223, I guess my Norinco is a lemon or something.

I believe the Chinese can make excellent products but, high quality is hard to find and I have been let down by too many chinese products. From now on it's American/European/Japanese for me. Heck, some brazilian stuff is good too.
 
You hate the gun and it will piss you off every single time you look at it.
So do some good with it.
You no doubt have a friend that is living on a tight budget and could probably use a mediocre gun for home defense or casual shooting. This Coach Gun could probably serve those roles in an OK manner (note that I said ok not excellent).
Pass this gun onto someone that is legal, broke and could use a gun. Include a NRA membership and pat yourself on the back for doing a good deed.
 
MachIVshooter:

First of all I would start by sending an e-mail or letter to Cimarron, and tell them of your displeasure. Suggest that there are many fine Italian and/or other European makers that offer excellent shotguns at reasonable prices, and they will be getting your future business.

Second, you should talk this over with your sister. Considering the circumstances she might have no objections to returning the gun to Cimarron for a refund or exchange. When she bought the gun it's unlikely she knew what it really was, and it's possible she might be as upset as you are.

Last but not least, I would do some serious research to find the shotgun that best meets your needs, and make sure I knew where it came from.

Oh, and this post was typed on an H-P laptop, that was entirely made in China - even the packaging it came in. Obviously the U.S. brand name is meaningless. I didn't know this at the time I bought it, but I've learned my lesson. Next time I will look first, buy second.
 
I can't find anything on Cimarron's web page that would lead anyone to believe all their guns are Italian made.

Nothing.

I've bought several guns from Cimarron and the retail store Texas Jacks over the years and I've never had them lie about the guns. I find it hard to believe that they DID lie about the guns.

This seems to be a case of buyer not knowing what was being bought. Caveat Emptor and all that, but to claim that Cimarron has deceived you somehow would be very inaccurate in my opinion.

The coach gun is what I wanted, having been led to believe it was Italian made
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Their website says:

Cimarron Firearms Co. offers detailed copies of the firearms used in taming the frontier in Texas and the American West.
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Well, I'd say that's accurate. How were you led to believe it was Italian made? Did you ask?

I will, because of this, boycott Cimarron and discourage others from buying their products. Really, anything but China.
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Will you also be boycotting the other 99% of businesses in the United States that use Chinese sourced materials in some manner in their products?

I mean no disrespect but it seems like you are disappointed in the gun being Chinese made, and that's fine, but to blame it on Cimarron somehow doesn't seem quite fair unless you were directly lied to about the source of the gun.
 
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The coach gun is what I wanted
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you wanted the gun, but you assumed because it was a cimarron it was italian made & your sister was nice enough to buy you exactly what you wanted & now your PO'ed.
get over it and enjoy the gun for what it actually is, its a christmas gift from your sister.
go out & shoot it instead of crying about it.
then go out & start your own american made coachgun company
 
then go out & start your own american made coachgun company
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I would pay double or triple what a chinese coach gun sells for if it was made in the US. Same for shoes and clothes. However, it is not possible (in the case of the shotgun) or nearly impossible (in the case of clothes or anything else). I won't buy chinese stuff either if at all possible. They are "selling us the rope to hang ourselves with". Fortunately it will probably be inferior quality rope.
 
OK everyone, time to show some spirit of Christmas to our fellow THR member!

I'm really sorry you're disappointed by the gift, Mach. That stinks! Look, you're not happy with the gun, and I understand that. Tell your sister about how you're worried about the safety aspect of it, and assure her that she couldn't have known about the quality. Have her return the gun and get a credit (I presume she purchased the gun from a retail shop) so that you can get something safe and more to your liking. Lesson learned about that coach gun, and let us know what you get as a replacement gift!

Edited to add: merry christmas, man. Sounds like a heck of a sister to me. My whole family lives in Colorado, and I couldn't get back there because of that stupid storm!
 
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