Civilian Range Etiquette and Safety for Law Enforcement and Military: Needed!

[The Avatar of Time]

He upholstered the firearm pointed it at me

Id have to see that. Ive never seen an upholstered firearm. I hape he went with a nice tweed or a seersucker. It would looks silly in chintz.

I'm not sure if no one else got your joke or just didn't care, but I thought it was good. Even though I had to read it twice to get it

Keep up the good work!

As for the main topic, there are loads of horribly unsafe people everywhere, from civillian to military. That being said though, I think some people can go a bit overboard with gun safety. Now I'm not saying you should point guns at people (at least not at ones you don't intend to shoot), and I realize that one slip up can mean some one gets injured or killed, but I've seen some safety courses that get a bit absurd.

I seen a video of a gun review the other day, and the guy was starting off with how to properly check a pistol, it was a Five-Seven for the curious. He pulls the magazine out, racks the slide a dozen times, locks the slide back, looks in the chamber, and then says you have to feel in the chamber too, just to be sure. So he stuck his finger in and felt about. I thought that was a bit..... well, dumb.

If you lock the slide back and look in there and there isn't a round in there then there's no round in there. Sticking your finger in and wiggling it about won't change that. Now if you're blind it's a good tip, otherwise it's pointless. Just pull the mag out, lock the slide back and look the chamber that's all you need to do.

I don't want to mock gun safety by any means, and that was perhaps a bad example, I'm just saying that there's a limit to what is logical and needed and some people get upset over nothing. Now what the police cheif did in the original poster's comment was indeed a bad thing, as are many other mentioned incidents.

I was once squirrel hunting with a friend that was walking in front of me, with a loaded rifle, carrying it with the barrel pointed over his shoulder and right at my head. When I mentioned it he didn't care and mocked me about being a coward or something of the sort. He's a terribly unsafe person, and really shouldn't be allowed to handle weapons.

I agree that overall it is better to be over-safe than under-safe though.

 

[sohcgt2]

I seen a video of a gun review the other day, and the guy was starting off with how to properly check a pistol, it was a Five-Seven for the curious. He pulls the magazine out, racks the slide a dozen times, locks the slide back, looks in the chamber, and then says you have to feel in the chamber too, just to be sure. So he stuck his finger in and felt about. I thought that was a bit..... well, dumb.

This is the procedure I use and teach, not because visual inspections are insufficient, but because it takes more time and there is never a reason to hurry and clear a gun. Sometimes its necessary to hurry and load a gun, but not to unload and make it safe. I think that is the primary reason some instructors teach that procedure. Its the same with reholstering after shooting, stop, make the gun safe, stop, double check, stop, clear the holster, stop, reholster slowly.

 

[Old Guy]

Hot range

The safest range is a hot range, your pistol is never unloaded, when you finished the shooting you wish to do on the range. You reload and holster, you arrive with a live firearm, leave the same way.

Two ways to do this, guns are only taken from your holster under the Range Officers direction, or you reload on the line, the firing line is the only place weapons are touched, no matter what.

Our local Sheriffs range has a sign as you leave "Is you gun loaded" good one.

Most dangerous range command "Un-load and holster a safe pistol" Hullo!!

 

[confed sailor]

Etiquette with Brass

Now, i don't want to detract from the safety aspects of this thread, but ill tell you one thing I have a problem with is spent brass. Now my buddy Brendan, was the worst about showering people with brass. Every time at the Francis Marion National Forest range in SC he'd light up the AR or some other brass spitter. forgetting where he was on the range and shower the folks to the right with his leavings. Well i was tired of the dirty looks so one day i fixed him. Took my CETME, and as he was hosing down our range neighbors sent 3 pieces of blazin hot cases into his neck. One went down his shirt, Ever seen a fat kid dance? It was a good thing that the sheriff's deputy wasn't there, would have run him in on indecent behavior.

As for range safety, i have 30 odd grains left of a .22 reminder in my hand. A painful but effective reminder about muzzle awareness.

 

[Titan6]

The problem is that as the professional level rises (police chief, SF operator, whatever) there is certainly a complacency that takes over. These same people would never tolerate these type acts from subordinates at a range but feel a false sense of security when they do the same thing. The fact is that no one is immune to stupidity and lapses of judgment.

 

[psyopspec]

one thing I have a problem with is spent brass.

At a shooting range used by others, it's a condition to be expected. Rather than intentionally putting hot brass down someone's shirt, dress accordingly. Hat, eyes, ears usually prevents it from being trouble.

By the same token, if you're out bump firing that new toy, take the station furthest to the right to minimize annoying people.

 

[Old Guy]

DC Police range, two DC Police Officers down range, pinning up paper silhouettes, 15m to their right, on the 15m line, two guys in Swat style gear, and real nice boots, un holstered and proceeded to fire on two much shot up targets (function testing?)


DC Cop, "Stop shooting we are down range!" Then from the GSG9 operator, in a German accent "But we are shooting over here"

US Range etiquette 101 followed!

 

[Polish_Pounder]

I am an RO at my range and the Army ROTC was down there shooting last week. They were carrying ARs and M9s around off the line, slide down, sweeping everyone in the room. After the second incident I went over and talked to the Captain in charge. He apologized, said they would be out in 15 minutes, then picked up an AR and M9 and proceeded to repeat the sweeping all over again. As he walked by I noticed that he and the Sarge were not wearing ear protection. I called a cease fire. They asked "What's wrong?". I told them that ear protection was required, and we would remain dead until they put some on. The said "Oh no, it's fine, go ahead. Don't stop on account of us." I told them the line was dead until they were off of the range. They are hands-down the worst group I've seen at the range.

Granted, ROTC isn't active military or LEO, but you would expect better than that.

-Polish

 

[sohcgt2]

The problem is that as the professional level rises (police chief, SF operator, whatever) there is certainly a complacency that takes over. These same people would never tolerate these type acts from subordinates at a range but feel a false sense of security when they do the same thing. The fact is that no one is immune to stupidity and lapses of judgment.

Comfort and complacency go hand in hand, some of these guys need a negligent discharge to remind them. Of course if no harm came from it then they would likely deny it happened.
I try to "remind" everyone of safe handling and lead by example but in the end we can only police ourselves.

 

[Dark Skies]

Familiarity breeds contempt. I guess.

confed sailor - Etiquette with Brass

One of my bugs too! I was on a range attached to a shop off Pearl Road, Brunswick OH last July and the guy in the boothe next to me was banging away with a semi-auto for about half an hour. He finished and just up left leaving about fifty spent cases all over the floor. Didn't bat an eye. Bloody yob.

 

[Old Guy]

Dark Skies.

You had better explain Yob

Could not have been a Scouse!!

 

[GRIZ22]

I have been involved in the military since 1967,a LEO from 1974, and a LEO firearms instructor since 1976. The incidents you relate are not typical of either the military or LEOs and there are many stories of unsafe gun handling by civilians here on this forum.

 

[Old Guy]

The most common bar none! Glock disassembly system.

Rack slide, cartridge flies out, take out magazine... Press trigger.. Not! Bang!!

Correct method... Magazine out, place magazine in pocket... Retract slide 3 times, if three rounds fly out... What ever is in your pocket! It is surly not the magazine.

Back to drawing board!

 

[luzyfuerza]

As an SO on my club's range, I've repeatedly seen shooters sweep others, attempt to handle firearms while others are downrange, keep fingers on triggers 24/7/365, fail to unload and open the actions on firearms when instructed to do so, suffer ADs, you name it. I've seen folks from every walk of life screw up the four rules.

We're all people...civilians...LEOs...Military. When we work together to reinforce safe gun handling to those around us, the entire shooting community wins. Injuries are avoided, and bad news doesn't hit the newspapers. I like the calm, helpful, but firm responses described above. They work. We should all do our best to help those around us when they have a lapse in judgement and screw up.

 

[confed sailor]

HAHA, I meant the spent brass while its still in flight, leaving the range a mess is bad enough.

Psyopspec, I nailed my roommate with those cases to "imprint" a need to stop hosing down the neighbors. and it was funny too...

 

[Kayback]

Bbwahaha. I need to come shoot at your ranges more often. Anyone leaves brass lying around at mine and the vultures descend I must admit I'm one too, but if you abandon functional brass, your loss

The thing about civilian ranges, is not everyone is on the same page. At a military or LEO range everyone should pretty much have the same basic level of firearm competency. But there is no such thing on civvie street.

I know I'm safe to run on a hot range, having done it before. Same with a bunch of other guys I shoot with often. What's not cool are people who haven't handled their gun in years attending the range. You know the type.

The weapon handling taught to civilians, mainly at civilian ranges is about liability.

That's not to say I don't like cold ranges. IMHO the RO's or SO's should be allowed to run hot while everyone else is cold, and there are strict 180 rules and the like. I've been to a range where I got shouted at for "sweeping" someone because I bent over and my holstered, empty, tied down 1911 pointed backwards. That is taking it to the extreme.

I've been berated for holding my shotgun at "High Sabrina" before starting a 3 gun stage. "What if it goes off?" Because my shotgun does that ALL the time. And this was about 200m from the skeet range, WHERE THEY SHOOT THEIR SHOTGUNS INTO THE SKY.

I've also been berated for reloading my shotgun with it pointing down. "What if it goes off and shoots your toes off!" Again, because my shotgun fails so often and fires randomly, And my toes don't stick out 45 degrees from my hip. Yes I should reload on the shoulder, but you didn't make the cover big enough so I can reload from the shoulder and reload in cover at the same time.

There are two sides to the same coin. I agree people shouldn't be doing advanced exercises in view of the masses, but also don't be silly with babying people.