Classic .32 ACP Pistols

[Nom de Forum]

Here you go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model_1903_Pocket_Hammerless

"Here you go!"

agent109 you post "It (sic) think that the Browning 1903 .32 Auto Colt Pistol was his best design ever.", a gun that never existed. I give you an opportunity to check your facts and you respond with sarcastic condescension "What part of .32 Auto COLT Pistol did you seem to miss?". I provide you the facts that refute your statement and you attempt to refute those facts by posting a link that the first sentence is "The Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (not to be confused with the Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer) is a .32 ACP caliber, self-loading, semi-automatic pistol designed by John Browning and built by Colt Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company of Hartford, Connecticut." and is not about a mythical pistol known as the "Browning 1903 .32 Auto Colt Pistol". You really need to accept the fact that you at best made a miss-statement with your original post and should acknowledge it or you risk being perceived by most here on THR as foolishly obstinate in defending the in-defendable.

<edit>

 

[WestKentucky]

I look to these classic designs and wonder if I will ever find another auto loading handgun to which I become enamored. The only ones so far are taurus copies of the Beretta 92 and 84, the ppk, 3rd gen smith and wessons, and llama minimax.

Now that I think of it a llama especial would be a wonderful addition to the collection.

 

[agent109]

I have a Kel Tec P32 that works just fine! Nice deep cover gun!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Here you go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Mo...ket_Hammerless

Good cite, it always nice to see folks admit when they are wrong and to provide the proof also

There is no Browning 1903 .32 Auto Colt Pistol

There is a Colt 1903 pistol designed by JMB.
It was chambered in .32 ACP, but it was never manufactured or marketed by Browning

 

[agent109]

Neither was the 1911! It was marketed by Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, United Switch and Signal and Singer but it was designed by JMB. Let's not get so picky about semantics for God's sake. This is only an internet gun opinion (site) correct spelling not cite. WOW! another great warm welcome to the High Road!


The Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (not to be confused with the Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer) is a .32 ACP caliber, self-loading, semi-automatic pistol designed by John Browning and built by Colt

 

[Nom de Forum]

SO just what is so incorrect with the OPINION I set forth?

What is incorrect is you are praising a pistol that does not exist. What I can only guess you meant to say is that you think the Colt Model 1903 in .32 ACP is the best design ever. This is an important distinction because of the similar FN Model 1903 in 9x20. These are not the same pistol. The FN was not chambered in .32 ACP. Most of us on THR care about maintaining historical accuracy and it is not pedantry to attempt to correct errors before they become almost impossible to kill myths. I hope you now understand why I posted my replies to your erroneous statement. You are not being stalked. Do you really think you are the only person on THR that has had someone point-out their errors? It happens to just about everyone on THR including me. How about we end this tempest in a teapot so more can be posted on “classic” .32 autos so I and everyone else can learn more? I am sure Mr. da Vinci can give us all an education if he desires to do so.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Mr. Moderator, please don't let a good thread close, due to the attitude (obvious) of some.

I second that suggestion. I would like some the .32 experts to post some of the less commonly known details about the "classic" .32 autos for guys like me that only know the basics.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Neither was the 1911! It was marketed by Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, United Switch and Signal and Singer but it was designed by JMB. Let's not get so picky about semantics for God's sake.

Semantics...surely you jest

Some can be referred to as designed by JMB, but it wouldn't be correctly referred to as the Browning 1911...which I've never heard in the 60 years I've been around

This is only an internet gun opinion (site) correct spelling not cite.

This is a site to share gun knowledge and to correct mistaken information about guns...which is what is happening here. While I have sometimes corrected spelling, it isn't a primary purpose...just as I'll overlook the above example

WOW! another great warm welcome to the High Road!

Welcomes are only as warm as you'll let them be...it is one of the truths of life...one shouldn't read too much into being corrected

 

[Gun Master]

Fun on THR

Yeah, come on guys (y'all). Let's not get all riled up.
Let's discuss Classic .32 ACP Pistols.

I'm sorry if some of us had a bad day, but don't take it out on THR.
Relax. Enjoy.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You'll noticed that I've deleted some post and edited others, in trying to keep the thread on track. If your post is missing, that is where it went; if you have a problem with it contact me via PM

What I'll ask is that members refrain from commenting on other member's intentions.

Attacking the facts of a post are acceptable if you find them incorrect...please post corrected information or what leads you to believe what is correct.

This is the only warning I'll issue on this subject...infractions for violations will follow

Let it drop and put the other member on Ignore if that is what it takes

 

[agent109]

Considering the source, Understood and accepted.

You have yet to explain to me my what was wrong with my opinion that the 1903 .32 caliber Browning Auto Colt Pistol was a good little gun even it was made on the moon by Martians!

<edit>

 

[Steve C]

Here's one most probably haven't seen. Was a war souvenir that an Uncle brought back captured during the D-day invasion. Was used by the German army during WWI and must have been from old armory supplies.

 

[TarDevil]

Delete

 

[9mmepiphany]

You have yet to explain to me my what was wrong with my opinion that the 1903 .32 caliber Browning Auto Colt Pistol was a good little gun even it was made on the moon by Martians!

I've never commented on the quality of a pistol which doesn't exist

 

[Float Pilot]

FN model 1922 with Nazi proofs.

 

[rondog]

My .32's. A 1914 Mauser and a MAB Model C.

 

[Nom de Forum]

There are so many classic .32ACP pistols I have to wonder why? Wikipedia, a marginally reliable source, has a .32 ACP page that states more pistols have been chambered in .32 ACP than any other cartridge. Why was this cartridge so popular in the first half of the 20th century instead of the now more popular .380? Was it simply the 9 year head-start it had (1899 versus 1908)? Was it possibly because it was similar in caliber to the military rifles being used and that appealed for emotional reasons? Was it because of the recoil characteristics? Was it because “thirty-two gun in my pocket for fun” and similar sentiments were more appealing in the popular imagination than .380? I doubt this since it was most popular in Europe where it was not called a .32. Some of you guys who are aficionados of this caliber hopefully have some historical knowledge of the time and can give me an answer.

 

[kBob]

Once upon a time someone offered me a Bayard that was very tiny. It used nested springs like some of the chopped 1911s. Unfortunately in the decades since it was made and when I got to shoot it those springs had weakend so that it was not staying shut as long as it should. Burned my right hand, several times, OK, I am a slow learner.

-kBob

 

[usp9]

Since the more modern Sig P230 was included, I'd say the very interesting HK P7K3 would be a suitable addition to the list. The small 1911A1 based Llama Min-Max series is worth consideration. The Beretta 81/82 are world class pistols. The CZ83 is another modern pistol worth collecting. My personal favorite is the P230. Many great .32acp pistols out there.

P230


Llama Especial


HK K3 (pic borrowed from Photobucket)


32acp group

 

[WestKentucky]

That Mauser is like an English bulldog, so ugly that it went full circle to being kinda cool looking.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Dude, that Sig P230 has me drooling...

VooDoo

 

[Jim K]

Nom de Forum wrote: "The FN Model 1903 ... and the Colt Model 1903 ... are not the same design and are derived from different prototypes."

Not so, the Colt Model 1903 is a scaled down version of the FN Model 1903; except for size, they are nearly identical with some minor changes.

The FN Model 1903 came first. FN wanted a pistol to compete with the Luger for the military market, and had no handgun except for the FN Model 1900, which not only lacked power but, while still selling well, was rapidly becoming obsolescent. Browning had designed the Colt locked breech "dual link" pistols, but that design had been sold to Colt. Further, FN wanted a smaller pistol and one that could be put into production quickly, so Browning came up with the FN Model 1903, chambered for a shortened version of the .38 ACP, later called the 9mm Browning Long or 9x20mm.*

Browning then turned to Colt, which was not interested in the larger pistol, but which wanted a pocket model in .32, a caliber not seen in the U.S. to that point. (The FN Model 1900 was not sold in the U.S. due to a Colt/FN agreement not to tread on each others' toes). So Browning scaled the FN Model 1903 down and the result was the Colt Model 1903; the later version, in .380 ACP, is called the Model 1908 by collectors. Actually, Colt never used the terms "1903" or "1908"; those designations were given the guns by modern collectors.

A few years later, when FN decided it wanted a new pocket pistol, Browning obliged with the Model 1910, a somewhat simplified and striker-fired pistol owing only the basics to any of the earlier designs.

*It wasn't called the 9mm Browning Long until there was a 9mm Browning Short, the European name for the .380 ACP, which didn't exist at the time.

Jim

 

[SconnieGirl]

Oops!

 

[Nom de Forum]

Nom de Forum wrote: "The FN Model 1903 ... and the Colt Model 1903 ... are not the same design and are derived from different prototypes."

Not so, the Colt Model 1903 is a scaled down version of the FN Model 1903; except for size, they are nearly identical with some minor changes.

The FN Model 1903 came first. FN wanted a pistol to compete with the Luger for the military market, and had no handgun except for the FN Model 1900, which not only lacked power but, while still selling well, was rapidly becoming obsolescent. Browning had designed the Colt locked breech "dual link" pistols, but that design had been sold to Colt. Further, FN wanted a smaller pistol and one that could be put into production quickly, so Browning came up with the FN Model 1903, chambered for a shortened version of the .38 ACP, later called the 9mm Browning Long or 9x20mm.*

Browning then turned to Colt, which was not interested in the larger pistol, but which wanted a pocket model in .32, a caliber not seen in the U.S. to that point. (The FN Model 1900 was not sold in the U.S. due to a Colt/FN agreement not to tread on each others' toes). So Browning scaled the FN Model 1903 down and the result was the Colt Model 1903; the later version, in .380 ACP, is called the Model 1908 by collectors. Actually, Colt never used the terms "1903" or "1908"; those designations were given the guns by modern collectors.

A few years later, when FN decided it wanted a new pocket pistol, Browning obliged with the Model 1910, a somewhat simplified and striker-fired pistol owing only the basics to any of the earlier designs.

*It wasn't called the 9mm Browning Long until there was a 9mm Browning Short, the European name for the .380 ACP, which didn't exist at the time.

Jim

Jim,

I am not an expert on this subject but I don’t think what I wrote is “Not so”. These two pistols are indeed very similar and your statement “the Colt Model 1903 is a scaled down version of the FN Model 1903; except for size, they are nearly identical with some minor differences” is in my opinion so close to the truth it is nearly but not the whole truth. That being said, while I don’t have a definitive, authoritative source of the minute details of how the Colt came to be, I am fairly sure it went something like this based on what I have read: Mr. Browning using the FN M1903 as a starting point, creates drawings for a preproduction working model (prototype is an anachronism for use in the year 1903), this preproduction working model (prototype) is tested, small changes are made, production drawing are created, and then Colt starts producing the Colt M1903. In other words, Colt did not use Fabrique Nationale drawings of the FN M1903, erasing portions of the slide and barrel assembly and other minor details, to begin production of the Colt M1903s for sale to the public. Browning created wholly original drawings for a new pistol very similar to the FN and all the steps in creating a new pistol occurred. So I think it is fair to say the FN M1903 and Colt M1903 “are not the same design and are derived from different prototypes”. Regardless of this fine distinction it is important these two pistols not be considered the same pistol and referred to as “Browning Model 1903 .32 Auto Colt Pistol” because neither is that.

 

[Nom de Forum]

They seem to have been 100 years ago what 9mms are now - very prevalent and used for everything from pocket carry to police duty.

Why is that I wonder? Is the answer to that question essentially the same for both calibers?