Classic Lever-Action Rifle

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InfamousLegend

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I've been entertaining the idea of getting a lever action rifle that uses the same ammo as the revolver I'm about to get (.357). The problem I ran across was no one I know of makes a .357 with a side loading gate and then I realized how far could a .357 shoot accurately anyway? I've seen the 45-70 and the 444 Marlin and the bullets are extremely flat faced. Apparently the 45-70 has a significant amount of drop, and I simply don't know how accurate the round is let alone a 444Marlin.

I'm going to get a .357 revolver for sure and I've never been excited over AR-15's but the old cowboy looking lever-actions have always caught my eye. My Step-Father owns a Winchester Model 88 .308 but I don't like the look as much since it uses a detachable box magazine. It's a good looking gun but its not for me aesthetically.

Basically I'm considering a lever action rifle if the finances allow it after purchasing the. 357 revolver. My problem is I have literally no knowledge when it comes to these cartridges, especially when it comes to firing predominately handgun cartridges out of a rifle. To add to the mess Marlin just came out with the .308 &. 338 Marlin Express. I understand the rounds are fairly accurate but the price and availability concerns me. I'm not sure how popular the rounds will be and if Hornady will simply stop producing them leaving me with a giant paper weight in the shape of a gun.

The gun must have a side loading gate (I simply love the look of it, and I won't buy it if it doesn't have one) and being a side or top ejection is not as important. Top ejection looks better personally but I figure the round gets in your way if you need a follow up shot. I'm sorry if I rambled on, and as you can tell I'm in need of major guidance.

Recap: not sure what caliber to get and it must have a side loading gate. Blued and wood stock.
 
Dear Infamous,

I love lever rifles and own 4 to date and am looking for my fifth soon. I own a Marlin .444 and they are VERY accurate rifles and not so bad on the recoil end for the most part.

If you are young and can handle the 45-70 recoil, they are also a great rifle. Personal preference when it comes down between the two. Both are very powerful rifles for best use less than two hundred yards where they can handle anything in North America.

Both are great choices.

I would definitely choose the .444 over the .308 Marlin Express. Compare the ballistics for those rifles and a .444, no comparison. The .444 with Buffalo Bore throws a 335 gr bullet at 2025 fps muzzle velocity with over 3000 ft-pds of muzzle energy. That is grizzly bear medicine and folks that reload push the bullets up to 405 gr at 1800-1900 fps making them a real contender for bear defense.

The .308 and .338 Marlin Express don't get into that territory at all.

Good luck.

Alaska444
 
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I should mention I'm a fairly large guy, 6'2" @ 240lbs. I live in Northern California and I would not try to take anything over 250 yards, anything further than that and I would close the distance. The most powerful rifle I have shot was a 7.62x54r. At first it seemed like a lot but now it's hardly noticeable. Just how much kick does a 45-70 have and would a 444 be better for Northern California? Also what kind of availability issues would I come across with a 444?
 
Yesterday, 10:07 PM #4
InfamousLegend
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Join Date: February 20, 2012
Location: Redding, Ca
Posts: 20
I should mention I'm a fairly large guy, 6'2" @ 240lbs. I live in Northern California and I would not try to take anything over 250 yards, anything further than that and I would close the distance. The most powerful rifle I have shot was a 7.62x54r. At first it seemed like a lot but now it's hardly noticeable. Just how much kick does a 45-70 have and would a 444 be better for Northern California? Also what kind of availability issues would I come across with a 444?
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Sounds like you might do well with the 45-70 which comes in very light to VERY heavy load combinations from factory ammo. At 6'2" and 240 pounds, the 45-70 should not be too much gun for you.

I am 5'6", used to 5'7" but with a L5-S1 disc disappearing on me, I have shrunk about 3/4 of an inch already. I weigh 200 pounds, most of which is from good upper body strength I have had since I was a kid. I am a dialysis patient, so recoil control was important to me and that was one reason I decided on the .444 Marlin over the 45-70. In addition, the day I was looking at the .444, someone who had owned both said, the recoil on the .444 is not bad at all, but he didn't like the recoil on the 45-70.

For further recoil control, I added a pound and a half of lead to the stock and put a Limbsaver recoil pad on it. I thought the Limbsaver was a bit too easily ruined from daily use so I covered it with a Kick Killer lace up. That is a whole lot of recoil padding and the rifle now weighs just about 9.5 pounds compared to factory weight of 7.5 pounds. The extra weight doesn't bother me a bit to lug around at all and it does make about a 20% difference on felt recoil according to a lot of charts and recoil calculators. You could obviously do the same thing to the 45-70.

As far as availability, yes, it is a bit hard to find the Marlin .444 especially in the last couple of years. Much easier to find the 45-70 just about everywhere and ammo selection is better for the 45-70. If you are in northern CA, they don't have the grizzly back there yet, but I suspect in another 20 years, you will get to deal with them once again. Wolves have entered northern CA and the .444 holds one more in the magazine than the 45-70 which is 4 and 1 vs 5 and 1.

So, without grizzly in your back yard YET, the .444 will do all you need it to do in Northern CA and the .444 is a bit more accurate out to 200 yards than the 45-70. It is by far my favorite rifle even considering my more expensive Browning BLR .300 WSM. The recoil on the WSM is about the same as far as total recoil energy, but much quicker. My son doesn't like shooing the .300 WSM much at all, but the Marlin .444 is a breeze and he only weighs about 150 pounds at 5'11".

I hope this helps,

God bless,

Alaska444
 
Today, 12:54 AM #5
henschman
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Join Date: November 13, 2010
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,225
For a .357 mag rifle with a side gate, look for a used Marlin 1894. They are great little rifles.
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Nice rifle as well. I have the Marlin 1894c in .357 mag. With Buffalo Bore 180 gr .357 hardcast, it gets close to 30-30 power at nearly 1900 fps. Great little gun but up in Idaho, a bit on the short end for some of the critters up there. I originally got it for my wife since 30-30 or the .444 isn't an option for her with her recoil sensitivity, but she doesn't like it either. Made a nice addition to my collection of lever rifles and she sticks to the Henry .22 LR.
 
InfamousLegend said:
I understand the rounds are fairly accurate but the price and availability concerns me. I'm not sure how popular the rounds will be and if Hornady will simply stop producing them leaving me with a giant paper weight in the shape of a gun.
Click to expand...
This was my biggest worry with the .308 express and the main reason why I decided to forgo it back when i had to make this decision. Any reason why you aren't considering the venerable 30-30? Plenty of those in circulation and can do the job to 200 yards versus the average deer.

If you still want a hotter, commonly available cartridge after that in a levergun, you move up to a 45-70 or pick up an old savage 99 in real .308.
 
Please utilize Rossi as a last resort only. Their quality control is spotty in the best of times. Spend the money if you can, because there's better out there without the roll of their QC dice.
 
here is a great gun...
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This photo comes from Paco Kelley's site. He leads a group of lever action hunters to South Africa each year and their hunts are quite successful indeed.

This impala was taken with 357 MAG carbine. But I'm not sure of the distance. Impalas are about the same size as common whitetail deer. They're certainly not armor-plated at all.

TR

357impala.jpg
 
InfamousLegend,
I too like the idea of having a carbine/rifle and handgun of the same caliber. I used to have an original Marlin 94 rifle and Colt SAA both in 32-20. Not the best big game caliber for sure, but I killed one whitetail doe at about 35 yards with the rifle. Other than that I shot squirrels and lots of rocks with both guns.
The .357 Mag is not a bad choice for deer out to about 125 yards or so. You can also shoot .38 Special rounds through both guns. N. California is a big place with hunting areas that are in thick woods and also some areas that present long shots. If you keep your shots under 150 yards you should be fine with the .357. Another option is a .44 Mag, since you want a rifle/pistol combo. The range limitations are about the same, with the .44 having more power at the same distances.
The .357 Mag is as accurate as any other round out of a lever action rifle. I think you'll have a lot of fun with that combo.

George
 
You have asked a lot of questions in that original post. If you are going to pair the rifle with the revovler, that limits you to a few models. Any lrund can be loaded with SWC or RNFP bullets and interchange in both. If you must have a 357 go for it. Lots of available bullets for the reloader. And if you don't reload, lots of choices for factory rounds.

Once you get into rifle cartrdiges, not commonly found in revolvers, things get interesting. The 45-70 and 444 are much better than paper ballistics would let you think. The 45-70 does not need velocity to kill game. It just punches a large hole through the game and keeps on going. It has been around a while and was a flatter shooting replacement for the 50-70. I have no experience with the 444 but a bit with the 45-70. Loaded with blackpowder and a cast bullet, it penetrates. No real need to load it any faster as it loses penteration the more it expands. And it is accurate enough for target shooters and hunters to have remained in production since 1873.

Hope I was able to answer some of your concerns. If not, ask some questions.

Of course if you were to choose a revolver chambered in 45 long Colt...
 
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Thank you for the great replys Alaska444.

I saw the Marlin Model 1895 Cowboy on their website but it has a 26" barrel. I'm no expert but isn't that a bit long or does the 45-70 benefit from the extra length?
 
Ranges for deer of 125 and 150 yards were mentioned in a post above. Any other views and at what loads on range? Some of us do like the idea of same calibre rifles and handguns.
 
Yes...and yes.

The 45-70 benefits from all the tube length you can give it but 26" can be a poor fit for some situations.

The Cowboy versions are really nice rifles, though.
 
If you can find a good used Marlin in 357 or even 44 there is nothing wrong with those chamberings. The problem is that there are simply not many that show up used and at good prices. New rifles in those chamberings are not as common either. Unless you plan on hunting really large animals there is simply no need for the 444 or 45-70. They serve a very specialized need, but are not what you need.

You simply cannot go wrong with a 30-30. It will work for most hunting needs out to 150 yards or maybe a bit more. Ammo is cheap and easily available. They tend to be more accurate than the pistol calibers and have consideraby less recoil than the big bores. It is much easier to find great bargains on great used rifles in that chambering selling for considerably less than either the pistol caliber guns or the big bores.

I'd go 30-30 first, or even a 22 RF as a first levergun. If you decide you really want one of the more expensive guns you can always add one to the collection later.
 
I looked back at the OP and saw no mention of what the rifle is to be FOR other than to consume the same cartridges as the revolver. Unless it doesn't. As long as it is a gate loader.

The Henry Big Boy is the only current or recent production centerfire lever action I know of that does NOT have a loading gate. There were a very few Marlin .32 H&Rs that had slip tube loading like a .22 but that is not something you are going to stumble over at the local hardware store. So all you have to do is pick a caliber and buy a Marlin, Winchester, Mossberg, Rossi, Uberti, Pedersoli, or Chiappa.
 
Can't be a lot of help BUT

I have owned a 357 Ruger black hawk for over 40 years. Had the guns in moth balls kind of for awhile....then one day I made some mad money and fell in love with the guns made by Henry... Bought a Big Boy in 357.....WOW...what a shooter.
I know you want a side gate, but if you shoot it lots you might change your mind... I think the Henry tube load works just fine, and having 10 in the tube is real slick, and sooooo easy to unload (so folks can pet it). Had a friend pet mine one day, then he came to my place and shot it, and now he owns one too.
BUT he kinda retaliated and let me shoot his 1911 Kimber 45. Now I have to have one.
This Henry shoots so well with the added peep sight and my 70 year old eyes I'd feel well armed for anything that walks around where I live ...and your place too.
 
The Marlin is a great option for a pistol caliber lever rifle. But I would not discount the Rossi. I found my Rossi to be a decent gun for the cost. But look around and remember that one or two stories of issues is hardly an epedemic of poor quality control. But how the importer handles any such issues can make or break a deal. My one fear in this regard is that I gather Rossi is imported under the Taurus name. And from the number of stories of bad and slow warranty work being done by the Taurus USA company these days THAT part would worry me more than the gun.

Out of the box my own Rossi in .357 worked reliably but was a little rough feeling. But not rough enough to stop me from using it for some cowboy action shooting.

Later I used some information found commonly on the web to begin slicking it up. THis lead to troubles in feeding SWC ammo and some fat nosed RNFP cast bullets I was using for reloading. I've since tried "just" round nose cast bullets and it feeds them slick as a whistle. This being in .38Spl cases. The magnum rounds I've shot with it using JHP bullets fed smoothly right from the start.

Overall I've been very happy with my Rossi. Especially given that I'm into it for a LOT less then the cost of a Marlin or other Italian classic gun clones.
 
The gun will be used initially for the range and then for hunting once I get comfortable with it. The reason I shied away from the. 357 was its range limitations and Alaska mentioned the 45-70 could reach out to 200 yards.

I have never been hunting and I've always regretted not doing so. My uncle lives in Wyoming and was a hunting guide for elk. He promised to take me when I turned 14 but he never took me. I'm following the rule that most shots are taken under 200 yards and since I love the look of these guns and the larger calibers can reach out to that distance I figured it would fill my need for an entry rifle.
 
I figured it would fill my need for an entry rifle.
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I've owned a Marlin 45-70 for almost 40 years and like it, but it ain't an entry rifle. You need something you can afford to shoot a lot, and enjoy it at the same time. You get good by sending lots of rounds downrange. You won't do that with a rifle you cannot afford to buy ammo for, or if it kicks so hard you don't enjoy shooting it. I'm still recommending a 30-30 as a first time rifle. Consider a few things. Yes you can shoot a 45-70 out to 200 yards, or even farther, but with standard 405 gr loads you will have 4 FEET of bullet drop and only 1000 ft. lbs. of energy left at 200 yards.

A 30-30 will only drop 8 INCHES at that range and still have 990 ft. lbs. of energy. I know the heavier bullet will out penetrate and will be a better killer at that range, but unless you are moose hunting the 30-30 will still get the job done on deer size game. And do it at a fraction of the cost, and with 1/2 the recoil. A 30-30 will hit you with only around 12 ft. lbs. of recoil vs 23-24 for the lightest 45-70 loads and up to 40-50 ft. lbs. of recoil for the really hot stuff.

Not bashing the 45-70. It is a good round. I just don't recommend it for someones "entry rifle".
 
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