Clay's Confusion

[Hondo 60]

I went to the fun store & they were out of my regular powder, Titegroup.
The sales guy said he uses Clay's Universal for lots of different calibers, so I bought a lb.

I went to find load data & see some say Clay's, some say Universal & some say Clay's Universal, but all show different min & max loads.

Am I correct in guessing they're not talking about the same powder?
If I'm right how do I know what to use?

 

[Jim Watson]

They are not the same powders. Load data is very different. If it says Universal on the can, look for Universal in the book.

I do not understand why this is so confusing. Nobody complains about the difficulty of keeping four different color Dot powders straight. Or has trouble with the difference between 4895 and 4831 - only 36 apart.

 

[Hondo 60]

But the label on the bottle says "Clays Universal"

so is the data for Clays correct?
or the data for Universal?

The data for Green Dot says "Green Dot" just like the label on the bottle says "Green Dot"
Same for Blue Dot & Red Dot
Your comparison is definitely not apples to apples.

 

[Remo-99]

But the label on the bottle says "Clays Universal"

Use the data for Universal.

The Clays data is for 'standard' Clays (a faster burning powder than Universal).

 

[Jim Watson]

so is the data for Clays correct?
or the data for Universal?

To quote a usually reliable source (me) if it says Universal on the can, look for Universal in the book. Only use Clays data if that is ALL it says on the can.

 

[zxcvbob]

"Universal Clays" and "Hodgdon's Universal" are the same thing.

Just plain "Clays" is something totally different, and much faster burning.

Then there's "International Clays" (a.k.a. "Hodgdon's International, a Clays technology") that is something totally different (in between the previous two) and best avoided because there's no load data at all available except for shotshells.

 

[Hondo 60]

I think Hodgdon is intentionally trying to blow something up!

Thanks for the replies!

 

[918v]

I have never seen a "Clays Universal" label. I have always seen "Universal Clays" and just plain old "Clays". There should not be any confusion.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hodgdon developed a family of powders called Clays for use in what else, breaking "clays". In the order of fastest first there's Clays, International Clays and Universal Clays. All 3 have totally different burn rates and International Clays should not be used in anything but shotshells.

Clays is Clays and can be called Hodgdon Clays.
International Clays can also be called International or Hodgdon International.
Universal Clays can also be called Universal or Hodgdon Universal.

Some of the reloading manuals, including the data from Hodgdon, are eliminating the word Clays from International and Universal to try and avoid confusion with "just Clays" powder.

IMO Hodgdon made a mistake using the Clays name on all 3 powders in the "Clays family" even though it shouldn't have really been a problem to begin with.

I hope that helps a bit...