clays? which clays?

[oklahoma caveman]

ok folks i have a question, i bought a pound of universal clays powder for use in my 357. now i realize that there are 3 different clays powders. my manual lists load data for clays, and also for universal. my question is, which of these loadings should be using in my 357? the universal or the clays?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hodgdon put out a line of powders for loading shotshells they called Clays. Clays is the fastest of the 3, International Clays is in the middle and Universal Clays is the slowest of the three. Because those names were causing confusion many are dropping the 'Clays" part when talking about International and Universal. When you see data calling for Clays they are talking about just plain Clays, not the other 2. Universal is the same as Universal Clays. They just omitted the Clays part of the name when talking about it.

Clays is a very fast powder and when used in handgun rounds does best when loading for the .38 Special and .45 Auto although some reloaders use it for other calibers.

International Clays really doesn't have handgun applications and is best used for 20ga shotshells.

Universal is a slower powder and is also used for handgun reloading. It has a burn rate similar to Unique and will do well in any calibers where Unique is used. (but it's cleaner) This is the powder to use in mid-range .357 Magnum loads. On the other hand Clays is much too fast a powder to use in the .357 Magnum unless you are loading .38 Special target loads in a .357 Magnum case.

Hope this helps some....

 

[Jim Watson]

When you see data calling for Clays they are talking about just plain Clays, not the other 2. Universal is the same as Universal Clays. They just omitted the Clays part of the name when talking about it.

Tatto that on whichever hand you operate the powder measure with.


But I just don't understand, nobody ever had this sort of problem with Dot powder. You know, Red Dot, Green Dot, and Blue Dot. It was obvious that the color was part of the powder's name and actually made a difference.

 

[D. Manley]

Most load manuals are trying to reduce the confusion by de-emphazing the "Clays" moniker from all but the original and just addressing them as:

Clays
Universal
International

Too bad Hodgdon didn't do it originally.

 

[oklahoma caveman]

thank you all for the quick responses. i was unaware of the 3 clays, saw clays listed in my manual for my 357 and bought a pound of universal clays, but i loaded it with the clays load data instead of the universal load data, that could be the reason for my seemigly anemic loads, even with max loads.

 

[Texastbird]

And just glancing at the containers in the gunshop today, it wasn't totally obvious to me which powder was which without reading the labels pretty close. I think I will pass on these. I like titegroup and HP38 though.

 

[Sport45]

i was unaware of the 3 clays, saw clays listed in my manual for my 357 and bought a pound of universal clays, but i loaded it with the clays load data instead of the universal load data, that could be the reason for my seemigly anemic loads, even with max loads.

Sounds like you got lucky. If you had used Universal Clays data while actually using plain Clays you could have had some serious overpressure.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A question, why did you consider any of the Clays powders for loading a .357 Magnum in the first place. Even Universal isn't a usual full load Magnum powder.

What weight bullet are you using and are you loading a lead or jacketed bullet?

Using Hodgson/Winchester/IMR powders with lead bullets in a .357 Magnum I would suggest HS-6 but Universal is good too.

For jacketed bullets and mild loads try HS-6, Longshot or Universal. For full power loads try W296/H110, Hi-Skor 800-X, IMR/H4227 or Lil'Gun. Lil'Gun is a great choice with heavy bullets in the 170-180gr range.

If you are willing to use other company's powders, along with the above powders you can add AA#9, 2400, Enforcer, VV N350 and a few others for full power loads..

For middle loads try Power Pistol, Herco, True Blue, VV N340, AA#7 and powder in that burn rate range.

 

[Remo-99]

ADI used a numbering system when distinguisting between powder burnrates, in general the lower the number, the faster the powder.

ie: AS30(Clays) - fastest burnrate shotshell powder, they produce (light 12ga and light target pistol loads).

AP30 - same burnrate as AS30, but in smaller flake form (more suitable for small capacity pistol loads-less bulky).

AS50 (International)- next slower, suitable for 20ga and heavier 12ga loads as well as some low pressure pistol like .45colt.

AP50 - same burnrate as AS50, but less bulkier in smaller flake form, suitable for small capacity-low pressure pistol rounds.

AP70 (Universal) - slower than AS/AP50, suitable for heavy 12ga and many pistol loadings.

AP100 - Slowest flake powder ADI produce, suitable for high pressure pistol loads like 38super and lighter magnum loads in .357 and .44.

AR2205 (H4227) - Fastest extruded rifle powder they make, small rifle and magnum pistol loads.

AR2207 (H4198) - next slower extruded rifle powder.

AR2208 (H-Varget).

AR2209 (H4350).

AR2213 (H4831).

And so on, pitty Hodgdon marketing wizzards didn't follow similar or at lest call plain Clays, Clays Trap, Clays Skeet or something similar.

 

[Walkalong]

Tatto that on whichever hand you operate the powder measure with.

I just wrote "fast" with a bold sharpie on my Clays 1 Lb bottle, so just in case I get in a hurry, I don't grab it instead of Universal.

 

[Jim Watson]

it wasn't totally obvious to me which powder was which without reading the labels pretty close.

If you are reloading you need to read EVERYTHING more than "pretty close."


If there is any system to the IMR powder numbers, I don't know it. The proliferation of other brands using the same numbers for different powders claimed to have the same "burn rate" as IMR makes it worse. You must know what you are dealing with.

 

[BullitHolz]

I learned about this one the hard way.

I was loading up some .45ACP for range use an decided to try "Clays" out because I kept hearing it was cleaner burning. The problem was, I misunderstood the load data info from TWO different books and used the "Universal Clays" data instead.

Neeless to say these were HOT loads and bulged all of the cases in the hotter loadings, about 6 total.

I knew something was wrong so I packe it up and went home, looked over the book data and knew instantly what I had done.

"Clays" is pretty hot stuff, the burn rate is only slightly slower than Bullseye so you don't need much of it at all. "Universal Clays" is a slower burning powder and you use more accordingly, charge weights are similar to those used with 231 or Unique.

DO NOT mix your data up between the two, pay VERY close attention to what you are doing when trying new components in your reloaing process for the first time.

 

[GP100man]

Hodgdon needs to kik themselves for this!!!!!
but i like the clays line of powders though!!!!
wanted to add i have my powder under lock & key & only take out one kind at the time & put back before a different kind is removed, it makes you look at it twice , the actual powder & container , DON`T ask why i do this!!!!
GP100man