Clint Smith Loses It in Jan-Feb '05 American Handgunner

[MrMurphy]

The fact it's retro is The Point. Kind of like their Triple Lock or was it an M1917 remake?



I'd like to see a 3" half or full underlug .44 Special with a .44 Special size cylinder (length) and fixed sights (not the rounded front half moon sight), in stainless.

The same in .357 wouldn't be shunned by me either.

But the funky gold logo just has to go. Look at Les Baer's Thunder Ranch guns for the PROPER way.

 

[Marshall]

If you're big enought to step onto the public dance floor, you have to be able dance even if you don't like the song. I think he made himself like an idiot.

Want to know what I really think?

 

[JERRY]

some have egos so big that they are easily stepped on.

 

[Lone Star]

That thread on the S&W forum got too long and I quit reading before the guy posted about an M19 and .357 loads. But I think that's a very effective fighting gun that will deck someone quicker than the .45 autos that some favor!

I would prefer that 125 grain round in a L-frame or Ruger GP-100, as it's too stressful for frequent use in the M19/66. But it is strongly reported by knowledgeable people to be the single deadliest handgun round on humans.

I prefer heavier .357 bullets, but I think they will achieve attitude adjustment on a human foe very quickly.

Of course, this particular M19 fan may have said something else to make himself look like a fool... maybe I'll go over there and check his post. But the M19/66 with reasonable loads is a fine gun.

Lone Star

 

[Stainz]

I am a confirmed .44 Special shooter... I wanted the 21 as soon as I heard about it late last spring. I assumed that it would be to my 24's what the 28's are to the 27's, the 10's are to the 15's, etc - a 'user's' revolver. I had no idea it would be more dear in cost than my beautiful Heritage 24. To be blunt, the logo does not 'help' one bit - nor does the 'pedestrian' finish, obviously more like the 10/28's in design. I elected to vote my displeasure by not buying one. I will probably follow suit with my wallet and not renew my AH subscription if this issue's CS column's temper is the norm. I do believe he was within his 'range' by responding to the letter, however, although I wouldn't have been quite so sarcastic.

I do not know CS, nor, sadly to say, am I very well versed in his Thunder Ranch's history. I do know that Les Baer has produced his commemoratives as well. S&W took a chance with this production - as they did with the entire Heritage line just two-three years back. Because I am an S&W fan, I have to hope they do well... because of the great deal I got from a closeout dealer on my H24, I may just get a TR 21-4 if they don't do well... I just hope that blank sideplates are available!

Stainz

 

[scottauld]

A 158 grain .357 is a better choice for the old Model 19s, but the new 66s can take the 125 gr. just fine. Deadly stuff.

Cheers!
Scott

 

[WT]

Okay, I went out and bought the magazine and read Mr. Smith's article. I thought it was funny. I didn't take any offense.

I've never met or talked with the gentleman or attended any of his courses. However, I've found his writings interesting.

Yes, I would like to see a 4 inch blue steel quality revolver going for $350 - $400. I think that would be a fair price. I bet Taurus could do it.

I would like to see SAW and others make more blue steel guns. We've enough of the stainless stuff.

 

[scottauld]

Boy, that sure sounded arrogant and know-it-all for it to be my first post. Sorry bout that.

 

[Jim March]

You know, this KIND of discussion doesn't just happen with guns.

In a current thread on the next generation of BMW motorcycles, we got gems like:







OK, that one's a bit crude but b'Gawd there's a similarity to the "faces", no?! Another similar "face":

All from one thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=193373&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

 

[Leaky Waders]

actually I kind of liked the gun...

Sorry to be different, but I liked the looks of the gun. I had been tossing around the idea of a getting a new handgun and I liked the looks of the Thunder Ranch Special. I don't think that it looks campy...but that's just me.

I mean winchester makes lots of special edition rifles and there hasn't been a lot of grief over their sideplates has there?

I wish that S&W would lose the lock on special edition or retro models though...just would be nice.

I think that it would've been neat to buy the gun and then attend the Thunder Ranch with it...but I can probably never afford that, still it's nice to have a dream and some sort of budget. I do want one though. I think that it will be a fun gun to have. I sent an email to S&W explaining that I was in Iraq and wanted to reserve one before they were all gone. I got a polite email back saying that I'd have to go through a dealer.

In all reality, I won't get the TR special anytime soon anyways. I've decided on a 3913 as my present to myself when I get home. Before they start putting locks on their autos too. Pretty soon you'll need the serial number tattooed on your right hand or forehead to purchase a firearm... I'm also getting a little 28 gauge for me and my sons to shoot. So, that's probably my gun buying budget for the next year. But, maybe I can get one in the near future.

Anyways, that's my two pesos worth. Don't be so hard on the dude for designing a firearm...afterall, he's one of the good guys.

V/R,

LW

 

[SouthpawShootr]

I think the gun is ok. EXCEPT, the thunder ranch logo should have been subdued. If that makes me a turd sucker, then so be it. Engrave it by all means, but don't do anything to make it stand out.

 

[mec]

In the mid80s S&W used that treatment for an Elmer Keith Commemorative. People are still asking a premium for those. I don't really care for the gold-wash icon treatment myself but the TR logo isn't really bad looking and might be a bonus for real TR fans.

I like the profile of the 21-4 and don't mind the liberal Democrat lock on the side-it doesn't look a bit worse than the hammer pin that went all the way through the frame on the old M&P 1905 4th change. If I had the gun, I would work around a load that would hit to the sights for me -hoping that I could get one in the 7-800 fps range with standard weight Kt or lead round nose instead of the 1,000 fps load they set it up for- and then find a nice strong side outside the belt holster to carry it around in.

 

[Old Dog]

I like the gun. I plan on ordering one. Is it overpriced? Sure, but it's worth it to me to get a new Smith -- especially in a great caliber -- that isn't stainless! I read Clint's remarks, and frankly, I agree with him. If you read the original AH article, the intent was to produce a concept piece, and some compromises were made. For Mr. Smith to be attacked for introducing a new revolver, simply because some folks don't care for some of the gun's features ... wow -- I don't blame him for firing back. And sheesh, after reading the thread from the S & W Forum, it's apparent that some of that forum's members really take themselves waaayy too seriously and are far less civil (amazingly) than the 1911 fanatics (myself included) on the 1911 Forum.

 

[Pappy John]

I don't really remember anyone attacking Clint....prior to having been given that scatological label. Myself and others merely expressed disappointment with S&W's execution of his, originally fine, idea. I like the gun itself, and would buy one in a minute for around 6 bills or so, even with that logo. I think $750- 800 is rape though.....won't do it.

 

[rock jock]

The TR revo is beautiful IMO, with one exception. S&W should have had the TR logo only. Adding the text is unnecessary and gaudy. The logo alone is universally known.

 

[webley455]

I am spot -on with Clint Smith. A lot of folks like 44spec and would like a S&W. He gets them to bring one out and people bitch. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you want a cheaper one buy a Taurus or find a used gun.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Yep, people complained and poor Clinty could take it and went crazy and called people Turd Suckers in print because they didn't like the offering. Clinty has gone a long way to destroy goodwill on his behalf, on behalf of TR, and on behalf of S&W. S&W has had enough bad publicity of late to then have the key representative/spokesman for a new offering come out and call potential customers names.

Oh sure, that makes me want to buy one of those turd sucking guns!

 

[Marshall]

I already voice my disdain for Clint's actions but , one thing he did indeed accomplish was, he got us talking about his baby and gun.

Any publicity is good publicity, someone once said. Whether that proves to be true here, time will tell.

 

[Blueduck]

Hate to admit it, but does anyone else find the "Turd Sucker-Chatroom Whiner" logo on the photoshopped pic to be more subdued and classy than the real Thunder Ranch model.

If I had to choose....

 

[io333]

Couldn't one just replace the sideplate, or does it have to be fitted?

 

[io333]

Also, S&W no longer has it listed. Perhaps they've sold out!

 

[BusMaster007]

I still don't own a S&W.
I did talk to Clint Smith on the phone once. He returned MY phone call. Nice guy.

 

[ted murphy]

I don't like the front sight, but it's pinned in so it can be replaced.

Stocks fit my hand pretty well though.

Logo doesn't do anything for me, but it doesn't bother me either. The newer guns seem to have sideplates that are not fitted. Guess you could get another . If I attended TR I'd consider it pretty cool ..If I bought one it would end up being a working revolver that was carried most every day so all the glitz would end up getting honest wear all over it. To that end I'm not so worried about the emblem.

Don't like the price but that's the joys of capitalism. Folks set prices and folks can choose to buy or not. I probably won't ever be able to afford one but some folks will spend the money to be sure.



Bout what Clint Smith said, guess you cannot accuse him of not saying what's on his mind.

Ted

 

[Texian Pistolero]

The use of that language in a publication causes disrespect for both the writer and the editors. It’s the same thing as Janet Jackson’s boob reveal. If we want smut, we can produce our own, or buy it elsewhere. We don’t want it put in our face where it is inappropriate.

Across the board, Americans are starting to demand the restoration of some common civility in public media. I’m not up in arms about any “boycott” of AH or CS. It just shapes my opinion. If the next issue carries an apology, case closed.

As to the gun, I currently have no time or budget for collector items. I’d like to see this in stainless, bobbed hammer, and street price for about $425. I’d probably get over the fact that Rosie O’Donnell has better lines.

I can't avoid the suspicion that all the hoopla is deliberate to get free publicity. There is a good chance that this will be a successful, sought after piece, affectionally to be know forever as "The Turd Sucker".

 

[HankB]

One of the things that prompted Clint Smith to call people "turd suckers" was an expressed dislike for the integral lock on the side.

Guess what . . . I looked up the original article from the Nov/Dec 2004 issue of American Handgunner, and the gun pictured - apparently Clint's own - doesn't have that %$#! lock!

Clint writes that the production guns would have the lock, and says "get used to it and quit whining." Easy to say when YOUR gun doesn't have it. (Good for thee, but not for ME!)

And in the latest American Handgunner, Ayoob writes of S&W lock failures, with the locks either locking unexpectedly or simply falling out. The reported cases involved light guns firing heavy loads, but even so, seeing it in print served to reinforce my opinion that something that adds nothing to the value of the gun ought not be there, especially when it might adversely affect reliability.