S&W Thunder Ranch 21-4 .44 Spl

[P. Plainsman]

. . . it's the cover story in the new American Handgunner.

I really want to want this gun. The .44 Spl should be the .45 ACP of defensive revolver cartridges -- old reliable, launching a fat, slow, heavy bullet with manageable recoil. (Yes, I know that lots of neat revolvers are being chambered today in the .45 ACP itself. There's still something faintly unnatural about a rimless round in a wheelgun. Better a .45 ACP revolver than a 9mm one, though; that's just heretical. )

So, I want to want this gun. There are two big problems:

(1) That ugly, gold "Thunder Ranch" logo blistered on the side. Who thought this was a good idea? Did Clint? Why? I mean, wasn't the whole concept of the 21-4 supposed to be a "classic," no-BS design for all the gun buffs? If they had just rendered the TR logo as a simple outline, engraved or screened against the blue finish -- like the S&W logo on the other sideplate -- then I'd make not a murmur of protest. (Compare the TR logo on the Les Baer Thunder Ranch 1911 -- it is way more discreet and tasteful.) But as things stand, the logo is a serious aesthetic blemish. Aargh.

(2) Rumors at the S&W Forum indicate that the MSRP for the 21-4 is going to be around $950. As I understand S&W's practices, that translates into about $750-800 street.
[cough]
Excuse me? Didn't the gun rag promos for the 21-4 tout the fact that this wasn't going to be a super-pricey Performance Center gun?

Supposedly you will be able to purchase an optional plain blue side plate without the tacky gold "THUNDER RANCH" blob. Fine. I'd pay $650 for the total package -- the gun, with a decent-looking sideplate, which it should have had in the first place. No more.

I think that's quite reasonable. You can buy a new, 6" barrel, adjustable-sight, seven-shot, stainless steel .357 Magnum Model 686+ for $525. That is a lot of revolver. It makes the notion of paying $750+ for a TR 21-4 (notwithstanding its excellent concept) very difficult to justify.

We'll see how the prices actually shake out on the store shelves. But right now, the signs are frustrating.

What do y'all think?

 

[Ric]

I agree with you, I want one.

I don't get my bonus check till the end of January so maybe by then the facts will be out as far as price and options. I'm also curious about how the production guns will shoot once the bugs are worked out (of which I'm sure their will be)

Nice write up on it but we will see when production starts. But I gotta tell ya, the Mountain Lite 44 spc is nice too and cheaper

I''m already starting to figure out what to do with the bonus check but I'm not sure about this gun yet

 

[P. Plainsman]

Nice write up on it but we will see when production starts.

Yeah, there were some noticeable omissions in the AH report. They said the prototype 21-4 "could shoot," but said nothing about the quality of the trigger pull or action. I'd like to know about that.

 

[Standing Wolf]

They said the prototype 21-4 "could shoot," but said nothing about the quality of the trigger pull or action. I'd like to know about that.

When was the last time you saw a good trigger on a new Smith & Wesson?

 

[mcmoyer]

I was sure drooling over the article. I too would love to have one, but I'm not gonna pay the real big bucks for one. I reckon time will tell.

 

[Preacherman]

When was the last time you saw a good trigger on a new Smith & Wesson?

SW, I didn't think the day would come when I would be able to (or have to!) say this, but for the past couple of years, the average Ruger revolver that I've picked up and handled in gunshops has had a better trigger than the average S&W! The other day, I picked up a new Rossi, and it also had a better trigger than most S&W's, out of the box! Something is rotten in the state of S&W...

 

[HankB]

I saw the article, too.

What little interest I had evaporated when I read that "production" guns will all come with that stupid integral lock on the side. That sort of cr@p just rubs me the wrong way.

I'm guessing it will also have MIM internals, too.

And I don't like that half-round front sight at all.

And (some people will disagree with me) I can't see buying an N-frame in .44 Special, when it will accomodate .44 Mag. I mean, you can still shoot Specials in a mag, so what's the point? Kind of like getting a .38 Special 686, if you see what I mean.

 

[prisoner6]

When was the last time you saw a good trigger on a new Smith & Wesson?

Last Saturday.

 

[TODD3465]

Yep the new ones with the different lock-work seem to be better.

 

[Pappy John]

I've been following the Model 21 saga all summer. I'd really, really like one....... for $600 or less. I'll take mine without the bird poop on the side, if possible.

 

[Dienekes]

Have also been watching. However if the price range quoted is at all close it hardly qualifies as a blue plate special. Just because I want one doesn't mean I'm willing to be made a fool of.

S&W could (and should) be able to put out a solid M21 for about the same price as, say a M10 or M13. It's a helluva good low-tech old gun, no more and no less.

 

[P. Plainsman]

It's a helluva good low-tech old gun, no more and no less.

Well said, Dienekes.

On a more decidedly optimistic S&W-related note, I just bought a sweet, gently-used, blued Model 19-3, after trying it out at the range. Won't be able to pick it up for another week or so, but I'm very happy. It's a handsome piece. The gun locked up well, and the adjustable sights were regulated precisely to aim with .357s. Also, this gun has a bitchin' (can I say that?) double action trigger. The single-action is downright feathery.

Why can't the makers give us sixguns with actions like that anymore? Are stupid lawsuits really the whole explanation?

Edited to add: To be fair, I handled a new six-shot 686 recently, and the trigger on it wasn't half bad, though not as nice as my 19-3-to-be. I also handled a new seven-shot 686+; its trigger was pretty lame.

 

[Slim Geezer]

A rimless round might seem unnatural in a wheelgun (M625), but those moon clips sure do make a fast reload - and take up much less space than a speedloader.

 

[B27]

IMHO, this gun would make better sense in .45ACP so full moon clips could be used.
Fast reloads and sure ejections of the empties.
I'm sure the chambering makes for nostalgic appeal, but I'd rather have a .45 than a .429.
Also, I have pantloads of .45ACP around for my 25's, 625's, 1911's, P220's etc.
Having to now start keeping a stock of .44 Special ammo on hand just does not appeal to me.
I hope S&W sells a pantload of them, but I'll pass.

And I hate the lock.

I got all excited when I saw the article and there was no silly hole in the gun.
Then I read it.

I'm just glad this city is awash in old used revolvers.

 

[BluesBear]

To me the really big news is the Black Hills 250gr Keith .44 Special ammo @ about 800fps, that the 24-4 is regulated for.

At last, a real defense load for .44 special.

 

[WT]

Kudos to Clint Smith for pushing this along.

If people want a .44 magnum, they can go out and buy one. This gun is meant for those who want a .44 special.

Clint has seen too many people break their adjustable sights at his classes in Texas, hence the fixed sights.

And blue is a nice color.

As far as the logo, well my truck and car have the maker's name in big, bold letters.

 

[El Tejon]

Like the concept. I'm going to pick one up at the big show in Indy in late October and try it out.

BTW, will also pick up any eeevil assault weapons I just happen to find there.

 

[Big Bad Wolf]

I just got the American Handgunner magazine featuring this and I was very pumped about it even with the frame mounted firing pin, MIM, ugly Thunder Ranch logo, and other assorted differences. I thought this would be the perfect gift for my Father this Christmas and one for me too but this is not an $800+ dollar gun. At best this is a max $600 dollar pistol.

 

[Big Bad Wolf]

I just got the American Handgunner magazine featuring this and I was very pumped about it even with the frame mounted firing pin, MIM, ugly Thunder Ranch logo, and other assorted differences. I thought this would be the perfect gift for my Father this Christmas and one for me too but this is not an $800+ dollar gun. At best this is a max $600 dollar pistol.

 

[Stainz]

My call to S&W several weeks ago revealed that MSRP of $958, taking me right out of the market. A check yesterday at Davidson's site revealed the 21TR under their S&W offering's model numbers. No picture, but a little info - including that is unavailable now ('Allocated'), but is MSRP $958 with 'their' price of $758, if they had it. I bought a LNIB, with all of the accessories & papers, '83 vintage 24-3 for just less than half of that 1/03... my Heritage 24 from CDNN last spring, my finest revolver, was $600. Believe me, either one of those is a far nicer .44 Special than the fixed sight 21 will be, even though the Davidson's description said it will include a presentation case.

I generally appaud re-ssued goodies. My brother's hobby is a case in point... plastic models. The old American companies re-issued some old models several years back with the original box art - down to even including the original price. Although marked for $.98, many then listed for $15+. It did seem to 'kill' the upward spiral of the original models, identified easily by having a postal code on their address as opposed to a Zip code. Oddly, the re-issued 21 will start out where the original 21's left off, dollar wise. S&W could have taken a lesson from Springfield and their OD boxed MilSurp 1911A... it is very succesful - and, decently priced. Of course, it was released as a shooter... This whole idea of being collectable is foreign to me... I want a shooter!

Re caliber offerings... I'd buy a .38 Special chambered 686+. I'd buy an appropriately priced 21, too. I also enjoy the improved offerings in .44 Special ammo as a 'step' in the right direction. Right now, the only such ammo one can buy here around Birmingham outside of a few gunstores is the CCI Blazer 200gr GDJHP, available at the 'Academy Sports/Outdoors' chains at $12.99/50 and an excellent choice for PD, although I quit buying them after one split it's case in my 696 earlier this year. Now my .44's get that same excellent bullet in Starline brass from Georgia Arms. Freedom allows us choice...

Stainz

 

[halvey]

I just read the article last night and was ready to buy one. Then I saw the logo...

And (some people will disagree with me) I can't see buying an N-frame in .44 Special, when it will accomodate .44 Mag. I mean, you can still shoot Specials in a mag, so what's the point? Kind of like getting a .38 Special 686, if you see what I mean.

I thought the same thing. Since I reload, I don't have any "special" cases around, I just download the magnum cases. But, like the article said: because it's supposed to be .44 Special. They know what you SHOULD shoot.

And I hate the lock.

I do to, but like the article said, "get used to it".

See, they know what's best....

I think I shall pass on this one.

 

[Damon]

Outside of the cost, it is a very good package for a fighting revolver.

 

[Damon]

Outside of the cost, it is a very good package for a fighting revolver.

 

[Mossyrock]

TR Logo

Guys, I may be mistaken, but somewhere in the article it stated that Clint asked them to leave the Thunder Ranch logo off of the production revolver. I wish I could quote the article, but American Handgunner keeps sending my issues to my ex-wife's house....and I'd rather go the supermarket and read one on the news stand than go get my copy......

Personally, I'd like to see this revolver with a matte blue finish and no logo. This is supposed to be a working gun, not a BBQ gun.

 

[Lone Star]

I want it without the TR logo, in stainless. I wish it would look just like the old M21, but the new stocks look good, if that's what will be on the production gun.

This said, I won't cry too much if I can't aford one. I can probably find a M24 from the 1980's for less.

And I know that in actual shootings, the .38 Special lead Plus P HP has stopped thugs as well as or better than the .44 Special. The .357 Magnum easily eclipses both, and can be carried in a handier gun. (Than an N-frame .44.)

The best .44 Special ammo on the market is Federal's 200 grain lead HP, and it's very hard to find in many places. Even from a 6.5-inch barrel, velocity is modest.There is no decent .44 Magnum combat ammo, and the factories don't seem interested in making any. For those of us with no space or time to reload, that's a big factor in buying a new .44.

Truthfully, a .44 general -use gun is a serious hobbyist's item; the "public" won't buy them, and the factory won't make many of a model that won't sell well. One pretty well has to handload to enjoy the .44 Special.

Lone Star