close call, no CCW on hand

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ID_shooting

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OK, I work at Pizza Hut as a driver for a second job. Of course, the last page of the employee manual is dedicated to me not having weapons at work. So that means I have no CCW on me wile driving around town in the dark with thier money. But oh well, gotta keep the lights on.

Anyway, last night it is snowing like mad, the raods aren't slick yet, but they are not far from it. I am on my way back to store from dropping off a pizza and sitting at a red light. My light turns green and I start to go when this red Pontiac Grand Prix withe Elmore County plates blows through the light at near 50 MPH and nearly clips the front of my 1/2 ton Chevy. I slammed on the breaks and pounded the horn. Every one else at the inter section just has the look of shock on thier face, the guy in the car next to me asks if I am ok and he says he is surpised the didn't smear themselvs all over the front of my truck.I just wave and smile then continue on my way.

I pull up to the next light and wouldn't you know it. There is a red Grand Prix in the lane next to me. I look over and it is two black guys with rap music blaring out of thier car and they are dress like thugs, oh well, to each thier own I think. Well, the driver cuts off his stereo and the passenger rolls down his window. I glance over and the driver yells somthing like "YO PUNK, YOU GOTTA PROBLEM?" I just calmly replied "no, not really, just wondering where you leanred how to drive." He came back with "YO MAMMA!" Now me, being a joker, and maybe trying to calm things down, came back with "That figures. She can't drive worth a damn iether." and laugh :cool:

This is where things go south quickly :eek:

The light turns green and these two shoot around me and slam on thier breaks. I slowed and went on around them. They shot past me again and yelled "PULL OVER SO WE CAN BEAT OUR PUNK A@@!" At this point I just put them on ignore mode but took hold of my cell phone so I could 911 if needed and started thinking of the best way to leave these two behind.

I look in the mirror and notice a funny looking white Crown Vic with silly lights on top about 6 cars back :evil: I slow down to just under the speed limit and just keep driving, these guys swirved around me about 5 times during the next half mile or so trying to cut me off. Well, Office Freindly sees this and on come the lights.

The two dudes notice the cops and start driving like normall people again, but too late... :neener:

I just kept going and went on with my night.

OK, that is the story, now comes the wouldas, shouldas, and couldas :eek:

OK, not working for a company that disarms me is one, but hey, the pay is decent, my co workers are fun and it is an enjoyable "no brain" job.

I could have ignored thier policy and CCW anyway, but I tend to follow the rules no matter what I do.

Should have kept my big mouth shut and let these two be punks :banghead: Hindsight tells me that was probably the best thing to do.

Should I have pulled in with the cop and told him what went down?

But I still wonder, what if there wasn't a cop around?

What do you think?

As for repecussions, I don't think I am worried about it. They were from the next county over, probably the Air Force Base and just how many plain white mid 90's Silverados are there for them to beable to pick me out.
The two dudes
 
It is hard to make judgements when something happens let alone after the fact not being in your shoes. But here is my $.02 worth.

1. If I was a pizza guy I would ignore the company rule better to be alive and with out a job then dead and unemployed permanently and pushing up daisys.

2. You probably didnt need to say anything but it sure is hard not to.

3. I would have gotten the lic. plate # and dialed 911 post haste probably a good idea armed or not.
 
In today's world of shooting somebody due to road rage or just because they diss'd you, I firmly believe that you should never engage in aggressive banter with other drivers. I don't care how stupid the other driver is or being in the right etc. etc. etc. If I had been in your situation I would have completely ignored them or amswered with a simple "no, not really" and left it at that. I would have also gotten their license plate # and be ready to call 911. I know this sounds wussy but like it or not the world is a different place today and I don't want to die or wind up killing someone else over a traffic altercation.

I also would go against company rules and carry a gun. If I never needed to use it they would never be the wiser and if I did need it, so what if I get fired.
 
No CCW

Agree with Gobrush and armoredman. The company will probably send some nice flowers to your funeral or a get-well card to the ICU...and carry on with business as usual while they train another guy to replace you. Stick the gun under your jacket and keep quiet. If you're dead, you don't need a job.

All these companies with the "No Guns" policy is a sad commentary to what America has become...or rather, what we have allowed it to become. There was a time that it was a surprise if an employee who handled cash alone at night WASN'T armed. Self-defense was not only a right...it was expected.

Better PR if you get killed than have the establishment viewed as having a gun nut in their employ, I suppose. Very sad...and completely unacceptable.
 
You were not a totally innocent person here. A guy cuts you off. BFD. Then you ran your mouth and dissed' somebody's moma. Expect trouble after that.

In your case, maybe you shouldn't carry a firearm since you go making things worse.
 
Well, don't take this too hard because I have had to mellow out over the years myself.

BUT, your horn is there for preventing an accident (or notifying your girlfriend that you are at her house for a date:D ) not expressing your displeasure at someone after a near collision. Obviously, they were in the wrong for running the red light, but you initiated the confrontation by honking your horn. (not that I really blame you, of course - it's just not smart to do that anymore)

Also, you could get an IWB holster and carry your employee manual rolled up in it, so that if anybody tries to bother you again on the job you could quick draw it and show them the page where it says you have to be unarmed. An self-respecting crook will then drop any weapons they might have and fight you fair with bare hands :p

(you know, like Fezzik and the Man in Black :D )
 
WT said:
You were not a totally innocent person here. A guy cuts you off. BFD. Then you ran your mouth and dissed' somebody's moma. Expect trouble after that.

In your case, maybe you shouldn't carry a firearm since you go making things worse.
Click to expand...

"I glance over and the driver yells somthing like "YO PUNK, YOU GOTTA PROBLEM?" I just calmly replied "no, not really, just wondering where you leanred how to drive." He came back with "YO MAMMA!" Now me, being a joker, and maybe trying to calm things down, came back with "That figures. She can't drive worth a damn iether." and laugh"

Where in this post did he insult the black guys momma? I think it was the other way around.

Maybe try reading the post thoroughly before offering advice.
 
I'm not sure of how to put this, but, generally speaking, it takes TWO parties to cause "road rage". Sure, one of those parties might be "at fault" in their driving, but finger-flipping and/or inflammatory words can and DO elevate the situation greatly. Add to that, there is NO way that you can easily ascertain why the "at fault" driver was operating his/her vehicle in such a careless or dangerous manner. Drugs? Drunk? Or, perhaps looking for a fight?

A bit off topic, but worth mentioning: I'm sure that most of us have seen a drunk driver on the road. If their driving is erratic and slow, I'm sure that your FIRST inclination is to steer clear of them as you PASS them.....right? Well, that now puts them BEHIND you, where it's more difficult to see if they speed up. Your best bet it to continue driving behind THEM, leaving plenty of room for you to manuever safely. If they run into someone else, you'd be able to brake so that you don't get involved in the collission. If you have a cell phone and see an OBVIOUSLY intoxicated driver on the road, you'd be doing yourself, others, and even the drunk driver a FAVOR by calling in the situation. You wouldn't be able to do that if you impatiently pass the drunk driver!
 
Someone here has a sig that says something similar to : "You can carry a bad attitude or you can carry concealed - You cannot carry both".

I agree.

There is more to responsible firearm ownership that firearms.

This Responsible Firearm Ownership is most times Attraction not Promotion We cannot do much for the Anti, we have a LOT of influence on the Fence Sitters. Society or Legislative.

In another life I was concerned about being targeted. Kidnapping, being forced against my will, or anyway to get me to get for the BGs what I had , or access to.

I'm talking running you off the road on freeways, two lane blacktops. Rear-ending you on purpose. Being T-bond, or backing into to you.

Defensive Driving meant , still means a whole different connotation to me - a whole lot more than "is that vehicle going to let me go forward at a 4 way stop".

I was young once. I used to run the River Roads, Airport Roads, even had our Cannonball Rally's to some location.

Even then when another made an attempt - or my gut spoke to me - "this vehicle is trying to rile you / get your focus distracted / is not obeying normal driving regs" -

I gained distance, I slowed down, took a turn, anything. Pride and ego will get you dead, cemetaries are full of folks whom relatives call heros and others call fools.

I knew the risks of my job, I trained my brain and others skills to stay safe, having a firearm was only one such tool - not the only tool.

I have had definite legal reasons to return gunfire - instead I ran like hell, I gained distance and attention. I also wrecked the suspension out of rental car too [never like front wheel drive - still don't, not worth a flip for jumping curbs and medians].

Buddy of mine on the Interstate , similar work as I. He was trying to make it to the next exit, two cars of BGs after him. One rear-ended him at 80 mph. He took the long deep slope b/t freeways. "Attracting attention Steve I was in fear of my life...freeway has less traffic, quiet, I was honking the horn had my lights a flashing...I was running for my life..."

He got attention all right, bouncing and going through a cement drainage ditch, messing up his car (totaled suspension). He got banged up too.

State Police called me and I hurried to scene. I got his mdse, and his guns he had on person. Got his car to a safe place. Waited until the hospital released him from 24 hour observation.

He had two CCW on person and a Pump shotgun in his trunk...for hotel stays.

Defensive driving , does not always equate using a firearm.

We did not have cell phones or 911 back then. We have always had mindset and training.

I cannot CCW in some areas due to State, Fed regs. There are metal detectors. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

Attitude is one such thing I have to train my brain for. Keep mouth shut and don't escalate. Non-threatening movements, still do not look like prey.

Excude confidence, awareness, preparedness, maturity - that "he /she is acting too cool - I best back off , I gotta feeling this prey ain't - instead will turn Predator on my butt".


Steve
 
I just calmly replied "no, not really, just wondering where you leanred how to drive."
Click to expand...
It was snowing, right?

That means you had to roll your window down to talk to the guys. So this wasn't something that just popped out of your mouth when both windows were already open; you got into that conversation on purpose. It took the deliberate act of rolling down the window to engage them.

By your own account, you already thought the guys in that car looked like thugs or gang-bangers, and you already knew they didn't give a damn about other drivers. And no matter how "calmly" you did it, you made a rude remark to some angry, stupid people.

If you poke a mad dog with a sharp stick, you can't be surprised if he bites you.

You lucked out this time, but need to work on your skills at de-escalation.

Oh, about the CCW? Wouldn't have helped in this situation. You certainly weren't hoping for an excuse to get out of the car and shoot these loudmouths ... were you? :scrutiny:

pax

A committment to avoidance, deescalation and deterrence is your number one option for personal security. -- Andy Stanford

Don't go stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things. -- John Farnam
 
"Yo momma?!?" If that's the best wit today's youth can manage, I fear for the future of humanity.

I've known several folks in the delivery business, and they've all carried. IIRC, it'd take a serious accusation before your employer can search your vehicle. Besides, there are worse things to get fired for. Just conceal it well.
 
My employer forbids carrying concealed weapons by employees. However, as with my last employer who also forbade carry by employees, there are no signs posted anywhere on the premises forbidding customers to carry. That would mean turning away paying customers, and we can't have that now, can we? Funny how anti-gun ideology so often takes a back seat to money.

I carry my Glock on the job anyway. I don't value my job more than the right to carry a weapon for self-defense. I understand that I'm breaking company rules and that I'll probably lose my job if I get caught, and I'm prepared to accept that consequence if I'm found out. My right, my risk, my choice. If I get caught carrying on the job, I can always look for another job. If I get attacked and killed due to being unarmed, I can't look for another life. I refuse to let a job turn me into a victim.

With a SmartCarry and the correctly fitting pants, it's very easy to hide. It never shows, and I never have to worry about it accidentally printing through my shirt when I bend over, if it were on my hip. Works for me.

By the way, before anyone asks, no, I didn't lose my last job because of carrying. I quit because my employer was an a-hole and I couldn't stand working for him anymore. It had nothing to do with guns.

I don't think ID_shooting meant the reply to "Yo mamma" as an insult. It sounds like he was trying to use humor to diffuse the situation, but he later realized it was a bad idea. You were right to simply drive on when the cop pulled them over. Trying to tell the cop what happened probably wouldn't change anything, and it would just give them a chance to memorize your face and, if they were smart enough, memorize your license plate in case they ran into you again. They were being street thugs, and their own actions ended up screwing them. I too would have just continued on my merry way, been grateful that a cop was there to intervene, and let it go at that.
 
...you got into that conversation on purpose. It took the deliberate act of rolling down the window to engage them.
Click to expand...
I don't think his actions can be judged based on that. Each situation has to be handled according to how it feels to the person involved. If he didn't roll down his window and just ignored them, this also could have pissed them off. There's more than one way to appear rude.

It's easy to evalulate the situation sitting at a keyboard, but for what it's worth, the best response might have been to simply reply "No, no problem", so as not to appear rude by ignoring them, but let them feel like badasses who rule the streets. They probably would have felt they 'showed him who's boss' and just driven away (some more 'manly' people might think that's a wimpy attitude, but if I'm faced with a possible violent confrontation, my priority is to attempt to diffuse the situation and prevent a possible shooting that might get myself or an innocent bystander killed, not bolstering my ego and asserting my manliness). Ignoring the person may not always be the right way to diffuse the situation.
 
Darth ~

You're right. "No, no problem" may have been the right way to handle it and just ignoring them may not have have been.

But I wasn't clear in my first post. My point was that his rude remark ("...just wondering where you learned to drive") didn't just slip out. He had to roll down the window before he said it. So he had time for second thoughts about what he was going to say.

pax
 
That's true. That's why my reaction would have been simply "No problem". Polite, and hope that does the trick and diffuses the sitation. If not, oh well, at least you tried, right?
 
Takes Two to Tango

Also agree with the line of thought that there was no need for a confrontation. I was in a similar situation once...same loud rap shakin' the ground. My reply was: "Naw man...just wonderin' where you got that killer sound system." He grinned and told me that I couldn't afford one, and they trucked on.

Stay safe!
 
Some good stuff here, but there is one aspect I need to clarify. My window was allready open. Yes it was snowing like the dickens, but you have to have to down to see addresses. Top that with the fact that I smoke, and can only do it on my way back from deliveries, my window is most always down.

As for the comments made between us, ya, I agree that I could have said different things. I guess not every person reacts the same. I have broken lots of ice and calmed people down using quick humorus comments while I was in the army. Didn't work out so well here.
 
1. If I was a pizza guy I would ignore the company rule better to be alive and with out a job then dead and unemployed permanently and pushing up daisys
Click to expand...

I agree with that, somewhat. Maturity definitely goes along with CCW.

I probably would have said "you know you almost smashed into me back at the light?" or something instead of inciting their obvious need for a smackdown. At least the cops got them.
 
I can see nothing overtly a bad attitude from Mr Pizza. Sometimes you just have to stand up.
That said never be the only one at a gunfight without a gun.
Letting things go often brings on further escalation of bullishness by the offender.
I would not let it go--to blazes with the bad dudes.
Blessings
 
Heh, you would think your life would be more important than a Pizza Hut job. Lets see... Fired from a simple job for carrying, or 6 feet under, or in trama center? hmmm...:scrutiny: :rolleyes:
 
my thoughts

I think you handled the situation tactfully. It was them that almost hit you, not vice versa. You did not instigate anything near as I can tell. Blowing your horn as you did is more a warning than a retaliation, that's natural instinct to make the offending driver snap out of it and realize he's doing something dumb or unsafe.

I had something similar on the freeway once. I passed someone who apparently thought they were the only people on the highway that could spped. I was travelling about 85mph, and this hurt their egos somehow. Well, these cats passed me then repeatedly swerved and harassed me until their turn off some 10 miles down the freeway. Never saw them again, thought bad thoughts for them and just kept driving. Wish I had the cop around that you did.

jeepmor
 
Humor can defuse a lot of situations, and I didn't see anything you said as confrontational. The only downside to using humor to get out of a situation is that in the rare cases where it won't work, it tends to really piss people off.

Agree with Gobrush and armoredman. The company will probably send some nice flowers to your funeral or a get-well card to the ICU...and carry on with business as usual while they train another guy to replace you. Stick the gun under your jacket and keep quiet. If you're dead, you don't need a job.

All these companies with the "No Guns" policy is a sad commentary to what America has become...or rather, what we have allowed it to become. There was a time that it was a surprise if an employee who handled cash alone at night WASN'T armed. Self-defense was not only a right...it was expected.

Better PR if you get killed than have the establishment viewed as having a gun nut in their employ, I suppose. Very sad...and completely unacceptable.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. The entire concept of them not allowing their employees to defend themselves is so illogical it's nearly humorous. That tends to convince hardworking, honest, desperate people who need the jobs that they have to follow nonsensical rules to stay employed, but getting yourself killed will "lose" you your job as well...

At any rate, the 5th Amendment is your friend.
Wes
 
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