Close Call

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wgaynor

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Went to a friends house for a Fish Fry. He's in his 60's and has been recovering from Guillain-Barre syndrome. He's able to walk with braces and a cane and has most of the control back of his arms and hands...mostly.

He's been worried about not being able to protect his family, so he bought a Ruger .22lr revolver (all he can handle with his weak hands/arms and shakiness) and a ruger lc9 with crimson traces for his wife.

He wanted to show me his new investment and grabbed them to show me. He had just taken a CCW course and shocked me by handing the revolver to me barrel first and loaded. :banghead: I asked him to unload it and hand it to me butt first (respectfully... he is my friend and senior) and he did.

When I returned it, he loaded it, closed the cylinder, and then started talking about how easy it was to aim. He then started moving it from side to side (pointed towards the living room where his wife, my wife, his daughter, and grandaughters were with his finger on the trigger and tightening. :eek:

I immediately touched his arm gently (he has reflex problems) and said it's loaded, take your finger off the trigger and don't point it at anyone.

He complied, but it scared him (he knew better). And me.

Anything else you think I should have done?
 
OMG

I might have taken the gun and had a VERY,VERY long talk with him before I considered giving it back --- empty.

And that is if he was a very close friend.

Otherwise I might have dialed 9/11 and let them decide what to do.

Or something along other drastic lines.
 
I know it wasn't intentional, but that doesn't lessen the seriousness of it in my mind. Just want to make sure I didn't over-react.
 
I'd have a heart to heart with his spouse.

I have a friend who had Guillain-Barre a few years back, and hasn't been quite the same mentally since. Nothing that you'd notice if you didn't know her well. As I think on it, it's just the sort of thing you've described- trouble focusing on something else while having a conversation.
 
I have taken him shooting, but he is not as interested since he can't hold the weapon steady more than a few seconds.

I met him only after the onset of this illness, but work in the field of Developmental Disabilities (broad range). He does shoe a diminished capability of concentrating and putting thoughts/ideas into words...

His wife and I will probably speak. That's a good idea. I'll probably also talk with his son-in-law since it was his wife and children in the room.
 
I think scattylobo is going a bit far with the 911 call. Based on who the person is I would very my response. It sounds like you did well, if perhaps too soft on him, but I would steer clear of him in regards to firearms. He obviously is far too lax about the rules.

I know a couple people who have had negligent discharges, one of which I still associate with and talk guns, because I truly believe he learned his lesson. The other has had multiple NDs, and I rarely see him any more because of it, and definitely not around firearms. thank goodness both happened to be pointing the guns in a safe direction. Your friend probably would have killed or injured someone if the gun had fired.
 
Cognitive impairment and memory loss. I'm not saying he should, or should not own a weapon. As stated before, I'd talk with all members of family living under his roof, or others who may visit. I would also strongly suggest he receive supplemental training often, if possible.

It sounds like he should not own a weapon. How did he pass the CCW exam? Or did he? Some states require the state police to request medical records to judge mental fitness for the permit.

Your concern is warranted. Could you possibly talk him out of gun ownership, since he does realize his shortcomings handling one? Possibly help him sell it?

I know it's sticky, but the lives around him are worth intervening for.

EDIT: How is his wife doing with her training?
 
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His wife is a natural shot. Center mass every time with proper form. She has a respect for firearms and the rules involved.

I don't feel he should have his guns removed from his possession. I do feel that those around him need to be aware that this is another area of his life that he may need some assistance.
 
Nothing more you can do now, except to tell him that, when you visit, discussions and any other interactions even remotely related to firearms are off-limits, and he is not to be armed (his wife may be.) Tell him why, that you got a little (okay, justifiably more than a little!) shaken during your last visit, and that you will require that he demonstrate to you that he has learned what he needs to have learned before your self-imposed restrictions on visiting him can be lifted. That demonstration must take place under circumstances you control, possibly at a firing range. And, yes, involve his wife in his firearms-safety remediation.
 
There might be a parallel here.
Both of my in-laws (then in their early 80s) demonstrated a steady, serious loss of safe driving skills/situational awareness at the same time.
My late father-in-law finally had a minor accident (reaction times/control/vision) and was almost getting lost on short, routine drives.
This man had earned many awards during his thirty year career with the Army Quartermasters ('44-'74).

The hardest thing my wife did with her parents was to tell them -over the phone- that they Needed to sell the car. They realized it soon after she stated the fact, and never contradicted her again about the reality.
 
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wg, 10/21/12

Having seen a number of GB patients over the years in my medical practice the thing to remember is that GB affects only the nerves to the muscles and not the brain. So any poor gunhandling is not due to the GB but due to a lack of knowledge or another brain disorder (like dementia). Either way he is not safe around a weapon. He should probably have his weapons taken from him until he can be educated about safe firearms practices and then shows that he has the memory and coordination to safely handle a gun. The chance of him injuring himself or his family members is greater than him needing the gun in a self defense situation. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow
 
How will you feel ?

My bottom line is "how will you feel and handle it" if he shoots a family member ,or himself.

I find that the bottom line is THE BOTTOM LINE.

My responsibility is to the innocent,including him.

I do not know how I would handle that scenario ---- and I do not intend to find out.

I have seen the results of gun shots and they did not make me happy.

And I would have done almost anything to avoid that.
 
oldandslow said:
he is not safe around a weapon. He should probably have his weapons taken from him until he can be educated about safe firearms practices and then shows that he has the memory and coordination to safely handle a gun. The chance of him injuring himself or his family members is greater than him needing the gun in a self defense situation.
Click to expand...


I agree with Old and Slow. Your friend is a threat to himself and others with a loaded firearm. He proved it multiple times in the short period of time you spent with him. While one feels bad in this situation it is the only proper response. No different than taking the keys from a elderly driver than cannot see or think clearly. Yes they drove for years and yes taking their keys away is taking away some of their independence, but it makes more sense than allowing them to kill someone with that independence.
 
I think that before he is denied his constitutional right to keep and bear arms,he ought to be evaluated and tested by a physician. One incident of carelessness,during which the weapon was never even discharged, committed by someone who can at least cognitively recognize that he was unsafe, does not mean that he should be stripped of the only means he's got of protecting himself.

Call 911? Or Take his gun away from him? Way too severe without having him tested by a physician first.
 
We all have to face the reality of life, as we get older there are lots of things we simply have to give up doing. Some of us will have to give up driving and some of us will have to give up handling a gun. The problem is that old people fail to realize this at times and need to be told by a loved one or friend that the time has come.
 
How long have you known your friend? If it's for a long time, is his thoughtlessness about safe gun handling typical behavior for him or is it something new? If it's new, you should suggest to the rest of the family that he be tested for dementia. He is old enough for that to be a possibility. If he is in the early stages, they need to make plans for coping with the disease. They include giving a competent, trustworthy person power of attorney to manage his affairs for him, revoking his driver's license and getting him into the NICS database. The last two might seem extreme, but there are instances where a senile parent has bought a new car to replace one that his children sold because he was no longer competent to drive.

Dementia is cruel disease. Its victims remember what they used to do and cannot understand why they are no longer able. My mother in law was a college educated teacher, professional photographer, concert mistress of the local symphony and successful investor. She finally died after chewing and swallowing the food put into her mouth became too much of an intellectual challenge.
 
I think the talk to the wife plan is the best. Tell her about what happened and let her take it from there. She's in alot better position to make whatever decisions might need to be made.
 
If this is the way he's behaving after just having taken a CCW course, he has no business owning a firearm.
 
I think you did just fine....

You took two significant safety violations and, through courtesy, turned them into teachable moments. I suspect your friend is a little embarrassed and will be more careful next time.

For a follow up, you could find an illustrated description of Cooper's 4 rules and print a copy out for him. He'll really understand then.

My dad made me take a hunter's safety class b4 I could own anything beyond a Red Ryder BB gun, and they really emphasized safety. He didn't really know guns himself... but he knew that proper instruction was the way to go.

Perhaps your friends CCW class was focused on legal and defense issues and glossed over safety.

The NRA basic pistol class would be a good one for him.
 
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