Close Quarter Gunfighting Course, Portland OR area 1/14/17

[strambo]

I've been posting about the importance of FoF training here for a while and it always frustrated me that it wasn't very available to the vast majority of gun owners. Though this 1-day course only makes sense if you are within a reasonable driving distance, at least it is another option!

Close Quarter Gunfighting

Typical gunfights happen in distances measured in feet, not yards. It can easily end up being a fistfight as much as a gunfight. Traditional range training does not prepare you for this reality.

The Doru Training Group CQG course is a 1 day training class designed to prepare you to survive a real life violent encounter. It uses the same Simunition FX marking cartridge technology as the military and law enforcement which is not typically available for civilians. This allows you to practice the skills you learn in a high stress force-on-force training environment.

Topics covered during the course:

· Introduction to the realities of violence

· Grip, stance, trigger control, and sight alignment

· Drawing, emergency reloads, scanning and movement

· Close quarter shooting techniques-retention and point shooting to 5 yards

· Striking-using bodyweight, anatomy, and gross motor skills to injure any attacker, no matter your size and strength

· Integration of striking and shooting

· Force-on-Force training scenarios with role players. Scenarios will include decision making, multiple opponents, and active shooter situations

Prerequisites: None. This course will be challenging (but accessible) for new shooters as well as those with prior training.

Equipment Needed: Your handgun, holster, 2 magazines, 1 magazine pouch, eye protection. NO LIVE AMMO! Wear comfortable pants with belt and shoes, long sleeve shirt (or sweatshirt) and gloves (shooting or light weigh work gloves) are highly recommended. Knee pads optional. Bring lunch or there is fast food available across the street from the training location. Dress for the weather. If you do not have your own handgun, magazine, and holster, loaners are available at no extra charge.

We will provide all of the necessary Simunition converted training weapons, ammunition, and protective gear!
http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/index.php/courses/

 

[Shawn Dodson]

$300 for a 1 day course - much of it a review of basics? How many Simunitions force-on-force drills will a student complete? How much downtime will there be between drills as other students are cycled thru?

 

[strambo]

Minimal downtime, only 6 students. The price is the same or less out of pocket then 1 day's tuition at a typical defensive handgun course plus ammo. I don't know about a review of "basics", how many courses cover close quarter shooting techniques, point shooting, striking and the integration of striking and shooting? Not to mention, the Simunition FoF component (which almost nobody offers).

This can never be a "bargain" price class...the cost of the protective gear, Sims guns, certification (to run it safely, I'm horrified at what I see on youtube of other FoF classes), Sims ammo (I provide it all) plus paid role players precludes it.

 

[Jeff White]

Strambo, are you teaching the class?

 

[strambo]

Roger

 

[Shawn Dodson]

How many "simunitions" drills?

 

[strambo]

Minimum of 5 where the student is the the main trainee plus participation in others in various roles. The sims tech will also be used for point shooting as well as blanks that are safe at contact range for extreme CQ striking/retention shooting working with live partners.

 

[Jeff White]

I don't think $300 for one day's training is out of line at all given the overhead involved. My former department paid more then that per officer for a one day active shooter class with simunitions. The simunitions portion of the training consisted of about 2 hours and each officer fired maybe 6 simunitions rounds.

It sounds like a good class, something almost completely unavailable to a private citizen.

I've seen too many amateur attempts at force on force training over the years. There are a lot of people who think they know what it's about and it often degenerates into cowboys and Indians or cops and robbers. I've seen it happen in the military and in LE.

Strambo's resume tells me that he has the experience and training to conduct it properly.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

If I wasn't a half a world away I'd take you up on it. Sounds like a quality session, albeit a bit pricey.

But I'm sure you'd give anyone here the THR discount.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If the price is giving you pause, it shouldn't, it is very reasonable.

It is more than I've paid for many different classes, but...simunitions. Let me just repeat that SIMUNITIONS

These kinds of classes just aren't very available because of the investment in equipment and liability insurance. If you have the chance, it would be a huge disservice to yourself not to attend.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it as I'll be in heavy practice for the AZ State IDPA Championship the following weekend.

If you do it again, let me know and I'll bring up 5 friends to fill your whole class...it is only 600 miles away

 

[hdwhit]

Typical gunfights happen in distances measured in feet, not yards. It can easily end up being a fistfight as much as a gunfight. Traditional range training does not prepare you for this reality.

I concur, but I don't know that the Oregon training course you cite is necessarily the answer.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

After a student completes a drill and is debriefed, will the student repeat the drill to apply lessons learned (to learn for themselves that the recommended actions from the debrief actually work) until he/she successfully completes the drill without major error so they own the experience and are programmed for success?

 

[strambo]

The thought process behind this course is I got a white paper (blank word doc ) and put down everything I would teach someone if I only had 1 day to prepare them for a gunfight. I did this with no limits or practical considerations as to what drills, skills or training methods I would use (matching the best training methodology to any given task). I then came back and applied real-world considerations and this course is the result. The only big concession I made to reality was to ditch live-fire. A minor concession is no multi hundred thousand dollar 300 deg. video simulator...but I'm subbing people for those decision making drills as a very close (and in some ways superior) second choice.

I designed this class with the "Pareto Principle" in mind. That is the idea that 80% of our results come from 20% of our efforts. For this, the idea is that 20% of skills will apply to 80% of gun fights. So, I'm not spending time teaching tactical reloads, or how to clear a double feed, or how to do a weak side, 1 hand reload. Most gunfights are over in a few seconds, take place at a few yards and involve a few rounds. Now, the skills left out are also important, but the industry is already teaching them quite well, they will be picked up at any defensive HG class. They aren't critical though...

Live fire is not the best training method for all skills. The mistake I see in the industry is everyone acts like it is, so certain critical skills aren't taught until advanced levels, if at all.

Obviously, you need to live-fire your carry gun to truly be prepared. However, the "one day" prep idea was just a thought experiment. Live-fire practice and instruction is the easiest to get. The entire shooting and training market caters to it almost 100% exclusively, and people are out there shooting their guns at local ranges all the time. So, my course is designed to plug in synergistically with what everyone else is teaching. It does not replace a CCW class, or a defensive HG live-fire course.

What it does do, is by ditching live-fire, allow me to safely teach skills that, while not difficult, simply aren't taught at all or are only taught at advanced courses with safety considerations making them less realistic. Then, to stress innoculate those skills with FoF training (nearly impossible to get on the civilian market). The only thing on the market I'm aware of which is very similar would be Southnarc's ECQC course. I'm sure it is great and would love to attend, it is also a 2 day+ course and you have to add in travel expenses and a day's worth of live ammo.

 

[strambo]

After a student completes a drill and is debriefed, will the student repeat the drill to apply lessons learned (to learn for themselves that the recommended actions from the debrief actually work) until he/she successfully completes the drill without major error so they own the experience and are programmed for success?

Yes

 

[shafter]

The price sounds reasonable and going by the OP's prior posts he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

The airfare would kill me but I would go if I lived closer.

 

[strambo]

Thanks Matt, I'd love to meet you some day and appreciate the help on PS over the years. Didn't design this class with the travelling customer in mind tho...

 

[Old Dog]

This class sounds pretty enticing -- assume it's an eight-hour affair with a lunch break? Tuition seems quite reasonable to me.

Little over three, three and a half hours from me ... certainly doable.

 

[strambo]

Old Dog,

Registration at 830, class start at 9 and projected end at 6. There is a nearby Best Western if driving back after wouldn't be safe. The location is in Banks which is 30 min west of Portland on hwy 26.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Dropping the live fire on a close in shooting class makes a lot of sense. Most training classes spend the first half, at least, doing basic drills making sure everyone can do the basics safely. If you don't have live ammo, the "basics" can be cut down substantially. Also, there are likely many more options of where the class can be held, since you don't need a range and a backstop - however, this may not apply with simunitions. I am surprised that more martial arts schools don't offer these classes.

 

[Jeff White]

I am surprised that more martial arts schools don't offer these classes.

Most martial arts schools don't have the expertise to plan and properly conduct force on force training. There is a lot more to it then most people think. Each scenario must be designed to teach a certain skill or thought process. The role players must understand that they are simply training aids, they are not there to show how skilled they are, they are there to help the student learn and become better. They have to understand their part in the after action review and be able to provide honest and unbiased feedback minus any ego. The trainer has to completely understand the engagement simulator he will be using. He has to know it forwards and backwards, it's advantages and it's limitations and he must design the scenario to be as realistic as possible within the limits of the engagement simulator. The trainer has to know who conduct a proper after action review so that all of the training objectives are covered.

The military has formal training in these skills. The companies that make and sell the simulators also have schools on these subjects, but that training is usually limited to the military and law enforcement personnel who make up most of the market for their products. That's why this kind of training is so hard to find in the private sector.

 

[strambo]

Dropping the live fire on a close in shooting class makes a lot of sense. Most training classes spend the first half, at least, doing basic drills making sure everyone can do the basics safely. If you don't have live ammo, the "basics" can be cut down substantially. Also, there are likely many more options of where the class can be held, since you don't need a range and a backstop - however, this may not apply with simunitions. I am surprised that more martial arts schools don't offer these classes.

Yes, dropping live fire gave me so much more freedom with the subject matter, I can teach close quarter shooting skills that while not difficult or advanced, due to safety could only be taught to the most advanced students via live fire (and probably with unrealistic safety measures as well). If you mess up with Simunition FX, you just get a welt and a learning experience! Yes, I also don't need a special backstop or live fire range at all, just a location that is not so pretty that shooting the Sim rounds won't mess it up to bad. I do have to be aware of the open area field of fire and anyone inside the danger zone has to have protective gear.

Jeff hit the nail on the head as to why more people don't offer it. Doing right takes a specialized background and a big investment in the gear. I have seen some horrifying video of it being done wrong...(instructors in the scenario with zero protective gear on, a role player using a live blade, student w/o all the required protective gear, etc.)

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Some of the best classes that I ever attended/taught were with Airsoft or Sims.
I have several friends who are police instructors and they have their students go through scenarios based on actual incidents experienced by members of their department.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Strambo, Oregon has chosen not to recognize any out of state CC permits...effectively disarming non-residents when we're in their state. I respond by not going there. Any thoughts about taking this course to any states that are more free?

 

[MistWolf]

How does simunitions work? My pistol is a PPQ