Commissar Gribb
Member
If they dont give me any hassle for my trade-in, I'll change my view of them. Right now I'm just a little angry that they didn't list the rifle I purchased as "non-funtional" 
CMP is starting to annoy me!
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El Rojo
Member
When I called them on my lower serial numbered gun, they said, "Oh, well we assumed everyone knew about that." Right. They did offer to send me either credit me $10 for a new striker or send me one, I forget which. I wasn't too happy about it, so I just let it go.
I don't know about yours, but my lower numbered Springfield seems to be in really nice shape. I wouldn't mind showing it to someone who knows 1903's to see what they think about it.
I don't know about yours, but my lower numbered Springfield seems to be in really nice shape. I wouldn't mind showing it to someone who knows 1903's to see what they think about it.
cracked butt
Member
Its a pretty good assumption that anyone who is interested in 1903 springfields would at least have an inkling of knowledge about what a low numbered 1903 is or the potential problems with them.
jefnvk
Member
Yeah, but I do agree that a little disclaimer on the rifle info page would be appropriate.
Then again, I guess I didn't know that Low Numbers were still available over mail order, thought they were only at the North store.
Speaking of low-number 1903's...
Hey, Red,
Before I ship out on my government "vacation", I've got a few hard cast gas-check .308" bullets, which would be the cat's meow for low-pressure shooting in a low-numbered 1903 Springfield, using Alliant 2400 or Accurate XMP-5744 to send it downrange. You ever consider the idea?
Let me know...
Hey, Red,
Before I ship out on my government "vacation", I've got a few hard cast gas-check .308" bullets, which would be the cat's meow for low-pressure shooting in a low-numbered 1903 Springfield, using Alliant 2400 or Accurate XMP-5744 to send it downrange. You ever consider the idea?
Let me know...
Commissar Gribb
Member
what about for someone who always thought a springfield would make a fun target rifle and was just getting into them? What about someone who thought the CMP only sold serviceable shooting arms rather than recalled antiques?
Didn't CMP offer a replacement high-numbered 1903 if the buyer was dissatisfied?
That could've been a few years ago, however. In defense of CMP, they also sell drill purpose rifles, which were 1903's with welded bolts and plugged chambers. No illusions that those weren't intended to be fired, either, although many enterprising individuals have since restored them to shooting condition.
It still doesn't hurt to do some reading on various weapons before committing to them. The brittle-receivered 1903 Springfields are fairly well-known in the firearms community, at least since Gen. Julian Hatcher wrote about them in 1947.
Something about your sigline that doesn't sound right - you list your 1893 Turk Mauser as a G98. Those terms are mutually exclusive, considering the large-ring Gewehr98 Mauser didn't come out until 1898 and afterwards.
That could've been a few years ago, however. In defense of CMP, they also sell drill purpose rifles, which were 1903's with welded bolts and plugged chambers. No illusions that those weren't intended to be fired, either, although many enterprising individuals have since restored them to shooting condition.
It still doesn't hurt to do some reading on various weapons before committing to them. The brittle-receivered 1903 Springfields are fairly well-known in the firearms community, at least since Gen. Julian Hatcher wrote about them in 1947.
Something about your sigline that doesn't sound right - you list your 1893 Turk Mauser as a G98. Those terms are mutually exclusive, considering the large-ring Gewehr98 Mauser didn't come out until 1898 and afterwards.
Commissar Gribb
Member
ABSOLUTELY! however- the drill rifles do say "welded bolts", "plugged chambers" etc.. while the entry for the low serial springfields does not say "disabled for customer safety". :banghead:
in defense of CMP, they've only INADVERTANTLY misled me so far. If they make it right and replace my order- I will be a happy customer and will buy from them again.
that doesn't help me now in 2005. I have a gun I can't (supposedly safely) shoot that has been advertised next to a gun that is perfectly safe to shoot with no more indication of faultiness than a "oh and by the way the serials are a bit different".
If I advertised two somewhat identical cars saying one had a slightly different serial number but didnt tell you only one of them was rusted out and and missing half the components- you would think something was amiss right?
correct. It looks like a G98 to me but was sold to me as an 1893. The date's probably (read: almost definately) incorrect.
you seem to know a little about G98s (from your name). Think you could help me figure out what the real age is of my mauser? I dont have any close up pics.
jefnvk
Member
But they are not selling them cheaper because they may have broken parts. Did one of the serial number ranges have a known issue? They have been determined to have issues since the 30's. It is common knowledge that low numbers as a group are improperly heat treated, and potentially unsafe to shoot.
A quick google on 'low serial number 1903 rifle' would have turned up all the issues. I was able in less than 10 minuets to determine not only are the rifles unsafe, but they grind the striker. This is what made me decide to buy the high number one. And this was on CMP's forum.
Like I said, I cannot find anywhere where the rifles are available for mail order sale. I only see them in the North store. I do not know if there was a disclaimer next to them when they were advertised, but judging by the three pages of warnings in the user manual I got with my '03, I would think there probably was.
Lawyerman
Member
I've purchased well over 20 rifles, closer to 30 actually from the CMP and they have always made any problems-which were few, right. They are not Kmart or even the corner gunshop. They deal in what are at a minimum 50 year old (half a century!) rifles.
As someone who spent several days in Anniston up to my arm pits in Garands and who knows how their system works I have only good things to say about them. If you got a gun with issues they will fix it.
They have done a wonderful thing in saving many hundreds of thousands of rifles that otherwise would very likely have gone to the crusher. Anyone have a clue on what good Garands were going for before CMP starting turning loose of them to Average Joes? Back in the late 80's they were $800, when you could find one. Then all the POS, totally thrashed, Korean re-imports came in, which is no longer possible due to restrictions, and the prices temporarily went down. If not for the CMP purchasing a Garand much less more than one would be a major financial committment. As it is I am able to afford enough to fill a safe!
As someone who spent several days in Anniston up to my arm pits in Garands and who knows how their system works I have only good things to say about them. If you got a gun with issues they will fix it.
They have done a wonderful thing in saving many hundreds of thousands of rifles that otherwise would very likely have gone to the crusher. Anyone have a clue on what good Garands were going for before CMP starting turning loose of them to Average Joes? Back in the late 80's they were $800, when you could find one. Then all the POS, totally thrashed, Korean re-imports came in, which is no longer possible due to restrictions, and the prices temporarily went down. If not for the CMP purchasing a Garand much less more than one would be a major financial committment. As it is I am able to afford enough to fill a safe!
charlesb_la
Member
Can you provide a link or source to the "entry" for the low number Springfields? I can not find it on their website and it is not in their latest catalog. It is my understanding you have to specificaly request one or go to the North Store as already stated.
Did you learn of "cheap" 1903s from someone and request one not understanding what a low serial numbered one was? I can't see how the CMP can mislead if they don't advertise them.
Good luck with your 1903, I'm sure the CMP will take care of you.
jefnvk
Member
If it were a regular, out to make a dollar business, the complaint may hold more weight. I am just saying, look at the enormous difference in what CMP does and what a gun store does. Cut them some slack.
That, and I would think that being able to order one to your doorstep would be a big plus in their book.
There are other outlets for M1's in the world. If you are willing to pay much more, you can probably get an exact description of what you are getting, and have it overnighted to your FFL.
PaulV
Member
I've purchased 2 M1903s from the CMP and remember that when the low numbers were available the issue with the brittle receivers was clearly explained on the website. I don't know about their print advertising. The big ruckus early on when these were first offered (about 2001 I believe?) was that they didn't say they were going to disable the firing pins. They corrected that oversight by updating their webpage shortly after the first complaints. If you ordered recently, you just didn't look close enough before ordering.
cracked butt
Member
I think that when people start a thread that pretty much trashes the CMP it rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I would go as far as to say that its in bad taste. The CMP is a non profit organization that promotes marksmanship and shooting sports to the next geberation of shooters. CMP isn't a business that is trying to prfit from sales, but to allow people to buy rifles a discounted price, the proceeds going to marksmanship programs.
If you made yearly donations to the Red Cross, would you complain about the flavor of donuts they gave you when a disaster hit your town and your family gathered at a Red Cross shelter?
If CMP wasn't selling these M1s, 1903s and ammo to go with them, its very likely that these rifles would be rusting and rotting away in some enormous government depository sandwiched right between the Ark of the Covenant and the jar that holds JFKs brain, until someone discovers them in the furute and cuts them up for scrap metal.
Whenever a person buys an item from anyplace, its up to that consumer to be informed about what they are buying first. Buyng from CMP is buying a pig in a poke, you don't know what you'll get, but it won't be a sows ear, and if it turns out to be one, CMP will bend over backwards to make it right. Try your odds with CMP then try your odds with Century once and see who gives you the best service and best likelyhood of getting a good gun.
Commissar Gribb
Member
4 years in military supply has taught me that common knowledge is not. Military arms are generally robust pieces of equipment that can withstand a great amount of abuse. Mauser action rifles are specifically very reliable type weapons in my experience.
I'm giving them a chance to make this problem right. I'm not looking to criticize CMP- I just want my rifles that I paid for and I want them to be A: functional B: delivered eventually (read: not placed on backorder indefinately). I'm willing to wait half a year for a nice rifle. I'm willing to deal with small defects and scratches (actually I like rifles with character and cleaning em up has become a hobby of mine). I just dont want to be hosed.
I dont buy anything from gun shows for that reason. I've bought 1 SKS from a show downtown once- but that's because I knew the guy selling it to me.
I think when people react unfavorably to a thread which isn't about trashing CMP as much as one person's general frustration that it rubs me the wrong way. All i'm saying is I want me frickin' functional rifle- If that makes me a bad person than sue me! If you're going to get offended because I received the low end package deal CMP gives the occasional customer, then I suggest you go read a different thread and leave me alone.
I thought the purpose of the CMP was to help first time shooters to become competant marksmen ???
I THOUGHT I was knowledgeable about the rifle I was buying I knew some about the history and the fact it's a basic mauser type action with a few added features. It was only AFTER I received the rifle that I found out it was disabled. Still a beautiful rifle though- smooth action, bluing is in decent condition and the stock is about 70-80% (hard to tell since I haven't tried to take off the cosmo yet). If I had a hard-on for wall hangings, this would be my rifle! I, unfortunately, buy and own arms to shoot with.
That's what I'm counting on. And when they send me my new high # 1903 or rack grade M1 (not really sure which I'm gonna trade for) I'll be posting a glowing review of them.
Commissar Gribb
Member
www.odcmp.com/store.htm
R030SLC M1903 SPRINGFIELD LOW SERIAL RIFLE "C" STOCK $375.00
I used this entry to fill in my form to them. They called me about 3 weeks later and said that they don't have any C stocks and that they'd give me an S stock. From the time I ordered it, to the time I received the rifle, nobody mentioned that the rifle would be disabled. - This is fine with me, I just want my exchange.
jefnvk
Member
That is the inventory for the North store, hence why there was no description. None of the guns on that page have a description, you have to look throught the catalog for the descriptions. Had you bought it there, it would have been told to you, it was mentioned over and over that if I were buying a shooter, not to get the low number one when I was at the store.
How well I know that.
Yep, if they're made right, and not heat-treated by guesstimating.
How well I know that.
Yep, if they're made right, and not heat-treated by guesstimating.
jefnvk
Member
For anyone that chooses to believe CMP is not great on customer service, I just got off the phone with them. Both my rifles are going back Friday, if they can't fix them there, they go to Anniston to be fixed. Both were bought with the knowledge that if they were broke, there wasn't anything hey had to do.
Why I'm happy? I've spent $30 and three trips to a local gunsmith to have one fixed, all the time him telling me that it was fixed and he test fired it, and it never was.
Why I'm happy? I've spent $30 and three trips to a local gunsmith to have one fixed, all the time him telling me that it was fixed and he test fired it, and it never was.
charlesb_la
Member
Yep that explains it, I guess they need to put the old disclaimer on that page. Have no fear they will square you away.
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