CMP Service Rifle

[cdrt]

I started shooting Highpower Rifle again last year and have been using my match M1 Garand in .308 that was built by Don McCoy in Santee.

The nearest regular distance range, Ft. Wolters in Mineral Wells, just restricted rifles to .223 only because of an impact area problem, so I'm in the market for a CMP Service Rifle in that caliber. The next nearest std range is Arcadia OK and that's a three and half hour drive for me. I can shoot reduced 100 yard matches in Wichita Falls, so the M1 is doable for now.

I've gotten some good advice from Blackfork, but was wondering if anyone else had any sage advice for me.

I've been looking at Rock River's CMP legal rifle and am leaning that way, but any advice or actual experience with an out-of-the box rifle would be appreciated. I saw where Bushmaster also makes a CMP eligible rifle. Anyone out there have one?

 

[dfugate]

Although I went with a Fulton Mirage upper with a Krieger barrel, but I were doing it again, I would go with a white oak upper with the Krieger barrel. Get the rear sights pinned; you will be in for a little over 1100 or so. The will site in the upper before shipping it too you. You could get another barrel and save some money, but the Krieger will last longer. It is a good thing you are switching to the AR; the Garand just can’t compete with the AR for leg points.

 

[mficken]

I shoot the M1A (.308) but i also have a .223 (AR#/M-# whatever you want to call it, as far as im concerned it is black holds the correct bullets and is a tack driver) My coach found me this rifle, we were going to go through rock river and get their rifle, but he told me i would want his gunsmith to atleast look it over and plan for some labor to have him retool the trigger at least. I looked at getting a Bushmaster, but after i ran this idea past him he told me a story of one of his previous pupils who bought one. When he got the rifle, (he bought the full match grade CMP legal one) the trigger was poorly done, i was told it felt like there was sand in the components and it did not have the correct pull. When they had a gunsmith look at it, he told them that was just the quality of the parts and there was nothing he could do beyond replacing it. They sent it back and had Bushmaster rebuild it for them.

Now i know i dont have all the details correct, but i do know i have heard more than a few horror stories about Bushmaster and their quality. The same stands for RRA, but i know atleast in the groups i shoot with RRA has a pretty good standard. This all eludes back to the way i look at bad experiences, EVERYONE WILL have a bad day, perhaps the day the gun was ordered/built was his. dfugate points out some quality pieces and parts, if you are looking to build one piece by piece.

 

[cdrt]

mficken

Thanks for the info. Back when (late 1980s, early 90s), I was an Expert classification shooting the M1, so I know it will shoot. It's these 60 year old bones that are having a problem and I'm not sure how much longer I can do this. At least for now, I can go from standing to sitting, etc. without too many problems. And I shot a 180 prone slowfire with it the other day, so it's still doing what it's supposed to do.

The only real reason to get the .223 is because of Ft. Wolters' restriction on caliber and I'm really looking at getting something like a RRA since I'm really not in the market to have something made up from parts.

 

[shooterer]

(Cut for an earlier post) this is what I did.

$1,000 Rock River Arms National Match A2 AR15 (.223 is the easiest and cheapest to shoot)
$200 Konus 20x60x80 spotting scope (Kowa is better but 3 times more)
$200 Vin-Ray scope stand (buy once, cry once)
$50-75 Sling (I like Les Tam @ $75)
$40-60 Glove (I'm a open finger guy)
$100 Used shooting jacket off Ebay (bought my hawkeye 20 year old heavy leather jacket for $115)
$5 piece of carpet (or $75 shooting mat)
$65 Shooting stool (mine is a Creedmoor)
$25 Dewy cleaning rod
$20 Sinclair AR cleaning rod guide
$20 AR cleaning hold open
5 ~ $15 Mags (20 round)
$25 NRA membership
$150 Ammunition (400 rounds Remington 55 grain)
$35 Ray-vin Super Smoker

There you go, 2K. Now go have fun.

If you shoot short courses, the ammo will be fine your first year. Next year buy a press and make your own "match" rounds for the same cost.

Remember, Dry fire as much as you can, focus on the front sight, forget about the last shot, don't worry about the next shot, and break this shot in the X ring.

Jim

ps; please don't show this post to my wife.

 

[cdrt]

shooterer

Thanks, but I think maybe you missed my earlier post. I have shot Highpower before, so I have all the accutrements; scope, scope stand, coat (three of them), shooting glove, mat, stool, sling (I have an extra one) etc.
Already a life member of the NRA (1976), TSRA and CRPA.

What I need are some comments about different out-of-the box ARs.

What I'll need to buy are the rifle, some .223 dies, small rifle primers, bullets, and full length case gage. I have a bunch of once fired brass and AR mags (from a different life).

 

[shooterer]

If you ask the people that have been doing this for a long time, they will tell you to buy a WOA upper from John with a RRA lower or use any lower and get a Geissele trigger.

I wanted to stay with a factory unit and went with the RRA NM A2 and I couldn’t be happier with my decision.

Before buying, I asked the same question on this board, AR15.com, thehighroad.com and nationalmatch.us and the response was 90% “Buy Rock River” many people don’t like the trigger on the Bushmaster or Armilite.

I hope this helps,
Jim

 

[ocabj]

If you ask the people that have been doing this for a long time, they will tell you to buy a WOA upper from John with a RRA lower or use any lower and get a Geissele trigger.

I agree with this.

1. stripped lower - $100~
2. A2 stock - $75~
3. lower parts kit - $50~
4. Geiselle trigger - $280~
5. White Oak Armament upper receiver - $695 (or $750 with pinned rear)

I've got two WOA uppers. One is on my competition rifle, and a second one is a backup / replacement once my barrel goes south on the current.

http://www.ocabj.net/gallery2/v/shooting/firearms/service_rifle_hp_ar15/woa_sr_upper-2/

And while the necessity of the pinned rear sight is debatable, $55 is inexpensive for that option.

 

[30Cal]

The AR is a lot different than the M1. It doesn't take a master craftsman to build a good AR upper. There just isn't a lot too it. RRA will work just fine.

I like the Geiselle trigger, but the RRA is very nice and well priced.

 

[Slamfire]

I've been looking at Rock River's CMP legal rifle and am leaning that way, but any advice or actual experience with an out-of-the box rifle would be appreciated. I saw where Bushmaster also makes a CMP eligible rifle. Anyone out there have one?

I have NM rifles by Armalite, Bushmaster and Rock River. They are all outstanding quality rifles. I have met folks who have won major events, like the President's 100, high service rifle, with stock box Armalite and Rock River rifles. I don't recall anyone winning with a stock box Bushmaster, because most people replace the trigger.

The Bushmaster match trigger is a mechanically a poor design, requires a speciality lubricant, and eventually looses the second stage through wear. The rest of the rifle is top notch. The barrel is a Wilson match barrel.

If I had a preference, it would be for Rock River. But the decision is simply based on small preferences not bearing on form, fit, function, or accuracy. Both the Rock River and the Armalite rifles have good two stage triggers, Wilson match barrels, good sights.

The great thing about AR's is that you can buy a stock box rifle match rifle from one of these manufacturers, and win the National championships with it. No joke. They are good to go as is.

Assuming you win the National Championships with the Bushmaster before the trigger gives out.

 

[cdrt]

Thanks 30Cal and Slamfire1. You pretty much confirmed what I thought about RRA.

Two questions. Should I go with 1/2 minute or 1/4 minute sights? My M1 is set up with 1/2 minute elevation.

I figured I'd go with the .040 rear aperature since I have a .520 on the M1. Which front sight would be better?

 

[Slamfire]

Two questions. Should I go with 1/2 minute or 1/4 minute sights? My M1 is set up with 1/2 minute elevation.

I am going to get yelled at, but I don't think anyone needs quarter minute adjustments with a post sight. Now I am only a Distinguished Marksman, but only at 100 yards matches have I ever found a need for quarters on a service rifle.

Sometimes at a 100 yard reduced match, you are shooting 10:00, 200, 400, 800 OC in the ten ring with halves, and you just cannot coax the stupid rifle to hit an X. And breaking position to compensate means the next shot will have a mystery impact point. Like an Eight or a Seven! (been there, done that) That is the only time I have ever needed quarter's with a service rifle.

Across the course, halves do fine. In fact. last match, shooter next to me totally lost track of her quarter minute elevations at 300 yards and 600 yards. I mean you are at a minimum of 72 quarter minute clicks at 600 yards. I much prefer 25 halves per elevation rotation to 48 quarter minute clicks.

On a match rifle, well you gotta have quarters. Many a time I have put on one click, and seen the group move a click.

Not with that blasted post.

 

[cdrt]

I am going to get yelled at, but I don't think anyone needs quarter minute adjustments with a post sight.

I won't yell at you. I was thinking 1/2 inch clicks since that's what I'm used to.

Thanks again.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I prefer the 1/4 x 1/4 sites. If you are buying the upper why not get the 1/4. If you poll most shooters they select the 1/4. I do have 1/2 on my NTIT rifle but for me thats a whole different match.
I do the following. I shoot the off hand and rapid sitting with a 6 hold and when I go back to 300 I do not touch the sites as they are right on with a center hold in prone. When I go back to 600 I run my site down to 0 and then two revolutions up and take off 2 to 6 clicks depending on the elevation of the range and fire. With 1/4 minute sites a full revolution is 25 1/4 minutes clicks.

As far as my opinion goes on which brand to buy? I have a few rra's uppers and they are fine. I actually have one I have never fired yet having bought it a few years ago as a spare. i have 3 of john hollinger's custom uppers or what started out his. I have put a few barrels on them since locally but I think he makes the best sites.

 

[cdrt]

I prefer the 1/4 x 1/4 sites.

Jon, you meant "sights", right?

I'm primarily looking at this as a Service rifle, not match rifle. If the 1/2 minute sights work for you in NTIT matches, then that configuration should work for what I want to do.

The 1/4 minute sights might be nice for the reduced 100 yards matches at Wichita Falls, but that's the only place in this area that shoots the reduced course. Arcadia and Mineral Wells are regular full size ranges, and where they shoot the Texas State match and Regionals are also regular KD ranges that go out to 600 yards.

Thanks again for everyone's input. Now I just have to pull the $ together. My wife is on board with the new rifle, but she's always been supportive of my rather expensive hobby.

 

[dfugate]

I agree with 1/2 minute sights, with 1/4 minute sights you end up clicking yourself to death.

 

[P-32]

I totally agree with the RRA NM rifle. Good to go out of the box! I went with a RRA NM lower and had White Oak Precision build a pinned upper. I went with a Nor Pac barrel at John's recommendation the first time then a Kreiger the second. Both uppers have shot better than I can. The Kreiger makes no copper at all. I might add I think the 7 to 1 twist is an good all around twist. It will shoot 53 gr. SMK's all the way out to Berger 90's.

John provides a couple of different rear aperatures for his rifles. I find on a bright sunny day I like the .36 the best. On a cloudy day I like the .40 the best. And Cdrt, you have only have about 5 years on me.

I don't see a problem with the 1/4" sights. I went from shooting a M-14 to a 308 M-1 to a AR. I had the same sight question as I was used to 1/2 moa sights on the big bore rifles. I found I like the 1/4" sights as I'm a little quicker to add or subtract a click or two when I should have been adding or subtracting anyways. I always start at the bottom and count back up to the correct elevation prior to each stage. It does take a little longer at 600 but I only count up 64 clicks. So my question is why wouldn't you have 1/4 X 1/4 moa sights if you could have them?

 

[taliv]

if i could have anything i wanted, it'd be 1/2 at 200 and 300 yrds and 1/4 at 600. 1/4 does make a difference for me at 600. but i do hate 60 clicks to get there.

btw, white oak's house barrels shoot pretty dang well. the extra $ for a krieger wasn't worth it to me.

 

[skinewmexico]

I know a bunch of guys out here who are really happy with their White Oak Uppers.

 

[paulo]

High Preformance International. Just as good as WOA

 

[cdrt]

Okay guys, thanks again for all the advice. I was able to find a good price on a new RRA NM A2 and it is on order. I went ahead and bit the big one and ordered it with the 1/4 minute sights and the .040 aperature.

Will let you all know how it goes once it gets here and I can put some rounds through it. In the mean time, I'll be shooting the M1 and see if I can do a little better score wise. There's a 100 yard reduced match in Wichita Falls on September 6.

 

[taprackbang]

The nearest regular distance range, Ft. Wolters in Mineral Wells, just restricted rifles to .223 only because of an impact area problem..

Have you tried Elm Fork or Alpine range? No caliber issues there.

Have you seen the documentary "Washington, You're Fired!?" Stay tuned for the sequel, "Washington, You're under Arrest!"

 

[cdrt]

Where are they and do they run Highpower matches? I don't see them listed in Shooting Sports.

The range here in Graham goes out to 500 meters, so I can practice longer distances.

 

[taprackbang]

The range here in Graham goes out to 500 meters, so I can practice longer distances.

Well there you go, that's perfect! Not sure about the aforementioned ranges running any high power matches. I would be interested in going to up to Graham to shoot their range.

 

[lonegunman]

Rock River Arms makes a solid service rifle, I have had great luck with mine, no problems and lots of accuracy. Buying a RRA rifle is a good way to start.