CMP to develop M1 Carbine match!!!!!!!!!!!

[hillbilly]

Yee-haw, indeed!


Help CMP Develop an M1 Carbine Match. The CMP Board recently au?thorized the development of an M1 Carbine Match that will become a new CMP Games event. Current CMP Games events are the John C. Garand Match, Springfield Match, Vintage Military Rifle Match, M16 EIC Match and Rimfire Sporter Match. The CMP solicits recommendations from inter?ested shooters regarding what the course of fire for the new CMP Carbine Match should be. A Carbine Match was actually part of the National Matches in the 1950s. Also, several CMP-affiliated clubs have staged car?bine events of their own and may have learned lessons that could help the CMP develop its new Carbine Match. The course of fire must, of course, be specifically designed for the M1 Carbine and its relatively low-velocity 110 grain bullet loads. What are the ideal distance(s) for this rifle? What target should be used? What firing positions and types of fire should be included? Anyone who would like to provide input into this development process is invited to submit recommendations and comments to CMP staff member Deborah Boyle, [email protected] or 419-635-2141, ext. 1122.

 

[hillbilly]

Below the second half of the email I just sent to the CMP about the carbine match.

These are just my ideas and opinions.

I am NOT asking anyone to submit these specific ideas and opinions to the CMP.

But please, give some input into this thing if you like the idea of a CMP M1 Carbine match.

hillbilly




No matter what the ranges or targets, I do think that the emphasis in the carbine match should be fun, akin to the philosophy and outlook in cowboy action shooting.

There is a reason why cowboy action shooting is the fastest growing shooting sport out there.....because it's fun.

I think the same outlook should be the grounding philosophy in the CMP carbine match.

Make it fun and relatively easy to get some success.

Use the carbine match as a tool to get novice shooters, especially women, adolescents, and younger kids into the game.

There are plenty of chances for crusty old guys who are really serious about their shooting to do the kinds of things that get crusty old guys excited.

But this carbine match is a real chance to get women and adolescents, even young kids involved.

Whatever course of fire you choose, please make it fun, exciting, and relatively easy to get some success in

This is a golden opportunity to grow the shooting sports by introducing a whole new group of shooters to the sport.

 

[Trebor]

You know, I don't see the need for a separate Carbine match. The Carbine works just fine in the Garand Match. 200 yards is well within the Carbines effective range on a target. The Garand Match CoF doesn't really need to be modified for the Carbine either. I think trying to add a Carbine specific match will just add uneeded logistical strain to the the organizers of the matches at Perry.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Now if only they could find a crapload of them somewhere and sell them cheap.

 

[ACP230]

I shot an M1 Carbine in a couple of NRA Highpower matches years ago.

It was interesting because there was a definite pause between the "POP" of the carbine and the "SMACK" of the bullets hitting the 200 yard targets.
There were a lot of Garands on the line then and some of the Garand shooters snickered a bit at the Carbine. However, all the bullets went through the target frontwards (no keyholes) and I didn't do too bad with the little rifle (for me).

Another thing that got my attention was the Carbine brass landing in the middle of my back during the prone stages. It was a new experience since my M1 Garand threw them forward at 1 o'clock.

 

[DMK]

I like your idea Hillbilly. 200 yards is a long way for a beginner. Shooting at varying ranges from maybe 25 out to 100 and using steel plate "poppers" like they use in CAS, USPS, etc, would be cool too. Those are loads of fun. Somehow I wonder if CMP would go for that kind of thing though.

 

[johnmcl]

My Thoughts

Hi all,

I'm going to respond to CMP's RFI. I am considering that 25, 50, 100, and 150 yards would be a really good mix of distances. Everybody would find something fun to shoot in that mix.

John

 

[ScottsGT]

If they're pushing the match, maybe they did find a crap load of Carbines and they want to get some interest generated? Like there wouldn't already be interest in Carbines if they came across 10K hidden in some old army depot
I've got mine, and would stock up for the kids! ( I need to do this with the Garands too)

 

[Trebor]

Hi all,

I'm going to respond to CMP's RFI. I am considering that 25, 50, 100, and 150 yards would be a really good mix of distances. Everybody would find something fun to shoot in that mix.

John

Considering that this is a match that would be run at the National Matches at Camp Perry the range will be at 100 yards minimum. With the numbers of shooters on the line, and the total number of matches and competitors that need to be accomdated, they won't be able to hold a Carbine Match with a CoF that requires more than one distance.

Think "Highpower" not "action shooting" when you think about the possibilities for a Carbine Match. Look at the current rules for the Garand Match and Springfield Match for the kind of match they are looking for. Odds are, the CoF will wind up being a modified Garand Match CoF.

Btw, Camp Perry is not set up for steel plates or poppes and there is really no way those could be accomdated during the National Matches.

 

[George S.]

Now if only they could find a crapload of them somewhere and sell them cheap.

Been lurking over on the CMP Forum and it seems like that Orest Michaels doesn't hold out a lot of hope that Carbines will become available anytime soon. Even if they do get some in, they will probably go fast and most likely at a price higher than the Service Grade M1's.

 

[hillbilly]

Trebor wrote:

"With the numbers of shooters on the line, and the total number of matches and competitors that need to be accomdated, they won't be able to hold a Carbine Match with a CoF that requires more than one distance."


Actually, they will be able to easily accomodate more than one distance.

I shoot highpower from time to time at the local club.

Every single highpower match is from more than one distance.

We start at 200 yards standing.

We end up at 300 yards prone.

You either have targets set up at the various ranges, or you merely just have the whole line, en masse, pack their trash and move back 100 yards.

Real highpower matches have a 600 yard target, even.

At the local club, we use a reduced bull at 300 yards to simulate 600 yards.

Varying ranges will not be a problem, as varying ranges are already the norm for highpower anyway.

hillbilly

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

The Garand, Springfield match are all run from the 200 yard line at camp Perry.
They have changed some dates around to have the Garand match all to its self so that means it should be faster and be able to have more shooters.
It also means by streching the matches out one more day (they start one day earlier this year) it allows them to schedule in a few more things in the future.
The carbine match is one and also revive the one I like and that is to have a 300 yard isu type of match for service rifles. If you think its hard now you should see that target and then think about doing it off hand and kneeling. They are talking about them both.
Yeah baby bring it on!

 

[Trebor]

Actually, they will be able to easily accomodate more than one distance.

I shoot highpower from time to time at the local club.

Every single highpower match is from more than one distance.

Not every Highpower match is conducted at more than one distance. The Garand Match and the Springfield Match at Camp Perry are both restricted to 200 yards only. I agree that "across the course" matches are usually the norm, but they are not the only matches held. I believe the published CoF fire for Garand Matches held at local clubs also stipulates a 200 yard only (or reduced 100 yard) CoF.

With the number of matches on the schedule at Camp Perry during the National Matches, and the number of competitors shooting, there is no way they could add another multiple line match. A single distance match (200 yards only or 100 yards only, whatever) is much easier to add to the National Matches than a match that requires the firing line to move. Remember, moving the firing line at Perry requires coordination with the other match being held at the same time on the adjecent firing line. That and the logistics of moving the shooters back, reestablishing the line, etc, makes a multiple distance match take much longer than the same number of relays shoot from a single distance.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Hillbilly -- I really like your idea to make the M1 Carbine match a more "fun" match. I've seen a few people dress in WW2 gear for the Garand match. Maybe they could encourage this for the Carbine match.

The course will probably have to be at a single distance. The Springfield, Garand and now M1 Carbine matches are designed for shooters who are fairly new to competition, so a single firing line and staging area would be a lot easier to keep safe and organized.

Seems the question is 100 yards vs. 200 yards.