CNN says FBI Agent's Weapon Accidentally fired...On it's Own!
- Thread starter JLStorm
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Aren't those illegal in New Jersey already? (just asking, I am not sure).
Sniper X
Member
Well, a weapon doesn't Accedentally fire by itself, and this wasn't a shootout! They keep calling it a shootout but the criminals didn;t fire a shot!
I don't know but I thought a shootout was something where BOTH sides were actually shooting.
I don't know but I thought a shootout was something where BOTH sides were actually shooting.
alucard0822
Member
must have been one of those new "smart guns" accidentally programmed to dirty harry mode
jessegpresley
Member
- Joined
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- 36
The report says "when another agent’s weapon accidentally discharged." It does not say "fired... on it's own" or "went off by itself" as other THR members are saying in this thread; even to the point of using quotations.
JLStorm, I too believe you are mistaken in your interpretation of the phrase "agent's weapon accidentally discharged". I believe it to be deliberately vague statement because it hasn't been said yet that the gun had a true AD, or the agent inadvertantly pulled the trigger.
JLStorm, I too believe you are mistaken in your interpretation of the phrase "agent's weapon accidentally discharged". I believe it to be deliberately vague statement because it hasn't been said yet that the gun had a true AD, or the agent inadvertantly pulled the trigger.
I have no doubt they are all great guys, and before the whitewash, I mean investigations of Ruby Ridge and Waco, I always felt the FBI was an honest and honorable organziation. The organization has since proven that is not so by its own actions.
That does not mean every individual agent is evil, or that even a majority are. I suspect most are pretty decent.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Yep, nothing here says that the gun fired "on its own." It says the weapon accidentally fired. It does not say the context of the firing. It does NOT say the gun fired on its own. It doesn't say the trigger was pulled by another agent either.
The suggestion made that it fired on its own is an interpretation of the statement and not actually information from the statement. Given that the information came from the FBI as part of a press release on the incident, I don't doubt that it was specifically worded to be vague on the key concept of how the gun came to discharge.
So then add to that then that CNN didn't actually say this as much as they reported what the FBI said.
C96
Member
My prayers and condolences to Officer Bush's wife and children. Thanks for doing a very difficult job.
allan
allan
Binkster
Member
Update from local paper
This article was taken from the website of the local paper. It seems he was shot with a rifle (none specified) in the arm pit as he was exiting his vehicle. This is only speculation on my part but it seems to me that he jumped out of his vehicle into the line of fire of the shooter. The shooter had a case of tunnel vision.
Local FBI agent first to die on duty since 9-11
Barry Lee Bush started his career in Berks County
The Morning Call
The bullet that killed a veteran FBI agent from Forks Township during a bank robbery investigation hit him in the armpit, where he was not covered by his bulletproof vest, according to published reports.
Barry Lee Bush, 52, was in a car that tried to block a suspect outside a PNC bank in central New Jersey when a van full of officers pulled up next to the suspect's car, the New York Daily News states.
One of the agents accidentally fired his rifle as he leaped out of the van and the bullet struck Bush's car, then clipped Bush, the newspaper states.
He is the first FBI agent killed in the line of duty since Sept. 11, 2001, the New York Daily News states.
State police captured a third bank robbery suspect this morning a few miles from the bank, two other robbery suspects were captured shortly after the shooting yesterday.
The Pottstown Mercury reports that Bush started his career in Berks County. He, was a Boyertown police officer, then a Pottstown police officer in the 1980s, the newspaper states.
In 1981, while Bush was a patrol officer in Boyertown, he received the Boyertown Jaycees Young Police Officer of the Year Award, according to the Mercury.
The newspaper doesn't say when Bush joined the Pottstown Police Department in Montgomery County, but it says he left in 1987 to join the FBI.
Bush was a 1972 graduate of Pottstown High School.
This article was taken from the website of the local paper. It seems he was shot with a rifle (none specified) in the arm pit as he was exiting his vehicle. This is only speculation on my part but it seems to me that he jumped out of his vehicle into the line of fire of the shooter. The shooter had a case of tunnel vision.
Local FBI agent first to die on duty since 9-11
Barry Lee Bush started his career in Berks County
The Morning Call
The bullet that killed a veteran FBI agent from Forks Township during a bank robbery investigation hit him in the armpit, where he was not covered by his bulletproof vest, according to published reports.
Barry Lee Bush, 52, was in a car that tried to block a suspect outside a PNC bank in central New Jersey when a van full of officers pulled up next to the suspect's car, the New York Daily News states.
One of the agents accidentally fired his rifle as he leaped out of the van and the bullet struck Bush's car, then clipped Bush, the newspaper states.
He is the first FBI agent killed in the line of duty since Sept. 11, 2001, the New York Daily News states.
State police captured a third bank robbery suspect this morning a few miles from the bank, two other robbery suspects were captured shortly after the shooting yesterday.
The Pottstown Mercury reports that Bush started his career in Berks County. He, was a Boyertown police officer, then a Pottstown police officer in the 1980s, the newspaper states.
In 1981, while Bush was a patrol officer in Boyertown, he received the Boyertown Jaycees Young Police Officer of the Year Award, according to the Mercury.
The newspaper doesn't say when Bush joined the Pottstown Police Department in Montgomery County, but it says he left in 1987 to join the FBI.
Bush was a 1972 graduate of Pottstown High School.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Actually it DID say that, then the original was pulled and re-edited.
There is another thread somewhere with the original and new copy.
Apparantly someone noticed and the change was made, but it absolutely said it they way it's been quoted here.
So the gun didn't "accidentally " go off . Hmm , know your target?
So they had full auto rifles? I was unaware that they made SKSs in full auto. Aren't "assault rifles" select fire/full auto/burst vs "assault weapons' being semi auto look alikes ?
Like I said before , they'll probably charge these guys even though it was freindly fire.
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-11/1175922058253010.xml&coll=1
I'm still trying to figure out WHY shots were fired to begin with since the suspects never fired once .
VegasEgo
Member.
a lady at my work said that the government should issue Batons and thats it to police officers and government agencies, because of this. next they are just gonna say let them throw rocks, mayeb they can hit one in the head....
Jersey Devil
Member
Reporters write. They don't know much about the controversies over 'by itself' or accidental. I don't doubt it was surey an accident.
Here in NJ a few towns are trying to put 'full auto' guns in the police cars. Now, that scares me.
Meanwhile, you read about cops killing their wives, suicides, car wrecks w/cops killing inocents. False arrests, etc. It's getting scary.
Here in NJ a few towns are trying to put 'full auto' guns in the police cars. Now, that scares me.
Meanwhile, you read about cops killing their wives, suicides, car wrecks w/cops killing inocents. False arrests, etc. It's getting scary.
Clown Alert
Attention all second guessing internet commandos.
You have NEVER put your ass on the line to protect
someone else.
You have never been in a REAL combat situation.
Nobody feels worse than the agent that shot his teammate.
Friendly fire incidents occur in the real world.
Grow up and man up.
All sympathy to the agents and their families.
Gratitude to those who do an apparently thankless job.
Attention all second guessing internet commandos.
You have NEVER put your ass on the line to protect
someone else.
You have never been in a REAL combat situation.
Nobody feels worse than the agent that shot his teammate.
Friendly fire incidents occur in the real world.
Grow up and man up.
All sympathy to the agents and their families.
Gratitude to those who do an apparently thankless job.
gaucho1>"Attention all second guessing internet commandos.You have NEVER put your ass on the line to protect someone else. You have never been in a REAL combat situation. Nobody feels worse than the agent that shot his teammate. Friendly fire incidents occur in the real world. Grow up and man up. All sympathy to the agents and their families. Gratitude to those who do an apparently thankless job."
---
On the whole I don't believe most are condemning the shooter, they're bitter that when accidents -do- happen, even when people have the best intentions, there is a different set of punishments/liability for L.E. compared to non-L.E.
Double-standards are what people don't like. Maybe experiences with pompous attitude when dealing with L.E. in the past is another. When I see people bragging how safe and awesome they are, it's always funnier when they drop the brick on their foot. When police browbeat hunters and recreational shooters up here for being potentially unsafe, it's fun to watch the taxpayer-funded spin doctors kick into high gear when there is a L.E. firearms accident.
"It was the gun firing on its own ! It was the weather ! Emotions were high ! She's a model officer with the best intentions ! The investigation will continue behind closed doors !"
>>compared to civilian accidents>>
"Charges were laid. Taxpayer-funded gun-grabber groups and the press are up in arms. New laws favouring gun bans are in the works."
---
On the whole I don't believe most are condemning the shooter, they're bitter that when accidents -do- happen, even when people have the best intentions, there is a different set of punishments/liability for L.E. compared to non-L.E.
Double-standards are what people don't like. Maybe experiences with pompous attitude when dealing with L.E. in the past is another. When I see people bragging how safe and awesome they are, it's always funnier when they drop the brick on their foot. When police browbeat hunters and recreational shooters up here for being potentially unsafe, it's fun to watch the taxpayer-funded spin doctors kick into high gear when there is a L.E. firearms accident.
"It was the gun firing on its own ! It was the weather ! Emotions were high ! She's a model officer with the best intentions ! The investigation will continue behind closed doors !"
>>compared to civilian accidents>>
"Charges were laid. Taxpayer-funded gun-grabber groups and the press are up in arms. New laws favouring gun bans are in the works."
Texfire
Member
My opinion, your mileage may vary.
Please have respect for the agent who is almost certainly having a crisis of doubt and conscience after shooting a fellow agent. The benefit of the doubt should be offered this person, after all we weren't there.
We also have no idea what their opinions on civilian gun ownership are. Until we have a video of them claiming that, "they are the only one professional enough to carry this gun", they deserve our restraint and a lack of derision if not expressed support. The double standard that has so many of us up in arms is not the fault of this agent, and shouldn't be laid at their feet.
Finally the wording used in articles by reporters are generally paraphrases at best, suppositions at worse, and not useful for conclusions unless a directly attributable quote.
Tex
Please have respect for the agent who is almost certainly having a crisis of doubt and conscience after shooting a fellow agent. The benefit of the doubt should be offered this person, after all we weren't there.
We also have no idea what their opinions on civilian gun ownership are. Until we have a video of them claiming that, "they are the only one professional enough to carry this gun", they deserve our restraint and a lack of derision if not expressed support. The double standard that has so many of us up in arms is not the fault of this agent, and shouldn't be laid at their feet.
Finally the wording used in articles by reporters are generally paraphrases at best, suppositions at worse, and not useful for conclusions unless a directly attributable quote.
Tex
The problem is that the news report statement is in the passive rather than the active voice. We editors caution writers about when the passive voice can be used effectively and when it is inappropriate.
Passive voice: "...when another agent's weapon accidentally fired."
Active voice: "when another agent accidently fired his weapon."
The passive is less direct and less precise. However, the habitual, overuse of the active voice in writing can lead to "forcible" writing. Transitions from the active to the passive can enliven writing, especially in the narrative form.
That said, no doubt in my mind (passive, by the way), if I had been the editor of this article, I would have the writer use the active voice in that statement.
As to whether the agent fired accidently or purposely is an entirely different matter.
Passive voice: "...when another agent's weapon accidentally fired."
Active voice: "when another agent accidently fired his weapon."
The passive is less direct and less precise. However, the habitual, overuse of the active voice in writing can lead to "forcible" writing. Transitions from the active to the passive can enliven writing, especially in the narrative form.
That said, no doubt in my mind (passive, by the way), if I had been the editor of this article, I would have the writer use the active voice in that statement.
As to whether the agent fired accidently or purposely is an entirely different matter.
.
Hmmm , guess my military service doesn't count . Glad you could lump everyone here that might question this shoot into one category of your choosing.
And why is that? If I , as a citizen now , shoots someone "accidentally" , I will be charged and hung out to dry . But , since these are "highly trained" officers , it's just a case of friendly fire , oops? Btw , what was the "combat situation" they were in? Were those not the only shots fired?
This officer will have to deal with his own demons on this and I feel bad for the families involved . I wouldn't wish this on anyone , but what happened and why needs to be looked at and if mistakes were made , then they should be addressed without any 'favoritism" because of his/their positions.
I agree with gak . Someone f**cked up and now it's in spin and protect mode .
Please note
My post is addressed to all second guessing internet commandos.
If you are not in that catagory,please discern what portion of the post
does not apply to you and ignore.
If the shoe fits,please let the entire post speak directly to you.
Arrogance and disrespectful ignorant attitudes by ANYONE towards
ANYONE reflect a lack of intelligence and insecurity. Position or
former position does not makes me or ANYONE immune from being stupid now.
Governmental and beureaucratic ass covering is pervasive.To criticize the
agents based on the CNN verbage is shallow and reveals a preset
attitude.
Sorry for the harsh post,but this one pissed me of.Please check your feet
before feeling offended.
My post is addressed to all second guessing internet commandos.
If you are not in that catagory,please discern what portion of the post
does not apply to you and ignore.
If the shoe fits,please let the entire post speak directly to you.
Arrogance and disrespectful ignorant attitudes by ANYONE towards
ANYONE reflect a lack of intelligence and insecurity. Position or
former position does not makes me or ANYONE immune from being stupid now.
Governmental and beureaucratic ass covering is pervasive.To criticize the
agents based on the CNN verbage is shallow and reveals a preset
attitude.
Sorry for the harsh post,but this one pissed me of.Please check your feet
before feeling offended.
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