CO to go way of AK, VT? re no CCW permit required

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jimpeel

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The Colorado Freedom to Carry Act

Got this from Rocky Mountain Gun Owners.

Today State Rep. Greg Brophy (R-Wray) introduced "The Colorado Freedom
to Carry Act", a bill to allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed
handguns without going through the burdensome and expensive process of
acquiring a permit.

"The US and Colorado Constitutions ensure our right to keep and bear
arms, and in our modern society bearing arms for self-defense is best
envisioned by thinking of a woman with a revolver in her purse," said
Brophy, a first-term lawmaker from Eastern Colorado. "Alaska and
Vermont citizens aren't required to jump through the hoops and hurdles
of a bureaucratic and expensive permit system. Colorado legislators
need to trust citizens as much as Alaska legislators do."

The measure, House Bill 1281, doesn't get rid of the permit process that
was passed in the 2003 legislative session. Instead, it merely
specifies that citizens who can legally possess handguns under state and
federal law -- by definition, law-abiding citizens -- can carry
concealed.

"To those who already have or want a concealed handgun permit, this bill
changes nothing," Brophy said. "They may want to keep their permits so
they can have reciprocity with other states that recognize Colorado's
permitting system. However, many citizens can't afford to pay for the
expensive training, fingerprinting and bureaucratic process the 2003 law
created. And frankly, they shouldn't have to."

According to Brophy, this bill -- patterned after a law passed last year
in Alaska and a long-held policy in Vermont -- will cost nothing to
implement and give citizens real freedom while making Colorado safer.

"Because of this long-standing policy, Vermont is always ranked as one
of the safest States in the Union," Brophy said. "Criminals don't care
about bans on concealed handguns because they are already committing
crimes like burglary, rape and murder. This bill will allow more
law-abiding citizens to carry concealed while allowing prosecutors to
throw the book at those who aren't allowed to carry."

The bill has been assigned to the House State, Veterans, and Military
Affairs Committee, and is scheduled to be heard on Feb. 10th, 2004.

-----------------------------------

To view House Bill 1281, the Colorado Freedom to Carry Act, go to:

http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS2004A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/868BE7B8AE3DA2
8287256E1500638B4D?Open&file=1281_01.pdf


To view information about State Rep. Greg Brophy, go to:

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/house/members/hou63.htm


To view information about bills in the 2004 Colorado Legislative
session, go to

http://www.rmgo.org/billwatch04.htm


To see the Gun Owners of America Fact Sheet on "Why we need concealed
carry policies like Vermont's" go to:

http://www.gunowners.org/vtcarry.htm


To see the listing of the safest states in the nation (Vermont is #1) go
to:

http://www.statestats.com/dangsaf03.htm

------------------------------


Dudley Brown
Executive Director

Toll-free line 888-874-3006
Direct Office Line 970-842-3006
Mobile Phone 970-380-3006

------------------------------------------
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners
Colorado's Largest Gun Rights Organization
PO Box 3114
Denver, Colorado 80201
Phone & Fax (888) 874-3006
http://www.rmgo.org [email protected]
------------------------------------------


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Last edited:
From RMGO:

"Today State Rep. Greg Brophy (R-Wray) introduced "The Colorado Freedom
to Carry Act", a bill to allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed
handguns without going through the burdensome and expensive process of acquiring a permit.

"The US and Colorado Constitutions ensure our right to keep and bear
arms, and in our modern society bearing arms for self-defense is best
envisioned by thinking of a woman with a revolver in her purse," said
Brophy, a first-term lawmaker from Eastern Colorado. "Alaska and
Vermont citizens aren't required to jump through the hoops and hurdles
of a bureaucratic and expensive permit system. Colorado legislators
need to trust citizens as much as Alaska legislators do."

The measure, House Bill 1281, doesn't get rid of the permit process that
was passed in the 2003 legislative session. Instead, it merely
specifies that citizens who can legally possess handguns under state and
federal law -- by definition, law-abiding citizens -- can carry concealed.

"To those who already have or want a concealed handgun permit, this bill
changes nothing," Brophy said. "They may want to keep their permits so
they can have reciprocity with other states that recognize Colorado's
permitting system. However, many citizens can't afford to pay for the
expensive training, fingerprinting and bureaucratic process the 2003 law
created. And frankly, they shouldn't have to."

According to Brophy, this bill -- patterned after a law passed last year
in Alaska and a long-held policy in Vermont -- will cost nothing to
implement and give citizens real freedom while making Colorado safer.

"Because of this long-standing policy, Vermont is always ranked as one
of the safest States in the Union," Brophy said. "Criminals don't care
about bans on concealed handguns because they are already committing
crimes like burglary, rape and murder. This bill will allow more
law-abiding citizens to carry concealed while allowing prosecutors to
throw the book at those who aren't allowed to carry."

The bill has been assigned to the House State, Veterans, and Military
Affairs Committee, and is scheduled to be heard on Feb. 10th, 2004.

-----------------------------------

To view House Bill 1281, the Colorado Freedom to Carry Act, go to:

http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS2004A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/868BE7B8AE3DA2
8287256E1500638B4D?Open&file=1281_01.pdf

(sorry this didn't translate - you can get at it through the "billwatch04" site)

To view information about State Rep. Greg Brophy, go to:

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/house/members/hou63.htm


To view information about bills in the 2004 Colorado Legislative
session, go to

http://www.rmgo.org/billwatch04.htm


To see the Gun Owners of America Fact Sheet on "Why we need concealed
carry policies like Vermont's" go to:

http://www.gunowners.org/vtcarry.htm


To see the listing of the safest states in the nation (Vermont is #1) go
to:

http://www.statestats.com/dangsaf03.htm
 
Last edited:
Sounds like a great idea to me, but I doubt there will be the sort of political drive that is needed to see this bill enacted into law, considering all that happened last year. I hope I'm wrong, though. Thanks for the update.
 
you know, I'm starting to think that we are witnessing the beginning of a sea change in American attitudes about firearm ownership.

This thought (although not neccessarily true) makes me deliriously happy.

:D
 
I just got that e-mail as well. Hopefully it will get enough support from gun owners and legislators.

Oh, I don't think the title of this thread is clean enough to really attract anyone to read it. I just clicked on it to see what the hell co to way of ak, vt meant. Looks like gibberish.
 
So Jim ... do you think it will fly?

I'd love this because frankly I don't like the idea of begging for my right to carry (which I believe the word bear in the 2nd Amendment means). Plus I see CCWs licenses as a way to get around registering guns by just registering gun owners.
 
"Looks like gibberish."

Honest, blunt critique. ;) I agree.

Tried to edit the thread subject line to:

CO to go way of AK, VT? re no CCW permit required

but it only posted into the body text rather than thread title.

Can a mod fix it? If so, please do. mr_dove's correct.

(dyslexics untie!) :D
 
Wow if they pass this then I'd be an above the board good guy for sure.:D

What would we debate then?:D

I'm going to E-mail them guys my support for the Fre(ed)om429451 bill.

That would be so startling if it passed. Here's hoping...:p
 
That darned jim! :cool:

Beats me, Zun. Was e-mail conversing with Dudley a bit earlier on a totally different theme - another "darned jim thing," so haven't had a chance to even touch base.

I betcha though, there will be very minimal support since the last legislative session ate up so much political energy over the CCW bill that did pass. Probablly too early to push for too much freedom all at once. :rolleyes:

I know for a fact that RMGO will be behind this, but I dunno about CSSA, FCC, etc.

If by morning, this isn't posted to [email protected] , I'll do that to try getting a feel what some folks think.

FAIC though, I'll be pounding on the keyboard to get the reps to run this for all it's worth.

& mods (again), please merge mine to Jim's & a better title would certainly get better attention here.
 
Zundfolge

The thread title was supposed to say "The Colorado Freedom to Carry Act" but my cut-n-paste got truncated.

I have no idea of where this could go. CO is a firearms friendly state but the antis are a very vocal group. Denver will be the sticking point when they start screaming "Home rule! Home rule!" Look at what you get from the 2nd district there Patsy Schroeder and Dianna DeGette. :rolleyes:

The rest of the state is pretty concervative. Boulder is the exception due to the university there. They get liberal types from all over the nation who go there and -- instead of voting absentee in their home state -- vote in the elections. Then they go back home and leave a liberal in the Congress representing Boulder.

The anti-firearms empire building Sheriffs will be against it as well. The good guys who issue permits and trust their citizenry will be for it.
 
I dunno if it'll fly the first year, but it gets the idea out there and if it takes a few years, oh well :).

I think we may indeed see a series of "clones" of the Alaska system pass, but I would think it won't be until after a couple/three years worth of data from Alaska are in.

That's not to say I'm not in favor of trying sooner :D.
 
Yah! My thread topic got silly as well - but more likely to my own typing that a truncation.

Jim's analysis is pretty spot on, with the exception that Ft Collins is trying hard to be Boulder North. Just an addition.

The Sheriff's ??? (truncated Association), is strangely opposed to mere citizens having the wherewithall to have the means - if ya git ma drift. Even our Larimer County Sheriff Jim - he was somewhat in the forefront of "registering" us in a criminal data-base even after us going through his own, CBI AND FBI background checks to pove that we be good guys. E-mails were not responded to. I dunno, nor get it at all - but luckily, he's a republican, or we'd be screwed. :rolleyes:

There were previous turf wars between Sheriffs who have stated that their own would not be used to support other deputies at close-to county border instances if the Sheriff issued CCW, etc. Strange things political I don't get ....

One thing I do know is that if we don't bang the drumloudly, this will go nowhere.

I suggest getting on the keyboard, fax, & phone & let these folk what for.

We don't do that, this bill will go nowhere.
 
The thread title was supposed to say "The Colorado Freedom to Carry Act" but my cut-n-paste got truncated.
Click to expand...
I dunno ... I kinda like the title :)

I have no idea of where this could go. CO is a firearms friendly state but the antis are a very vocal group. Denver will be the sticking point when they start screaming "Home rule! Home rule!" Look at what you get from the 2nd district there Patsy Schroeder and Dianna DeGette.
Click to expand...
I love how the leftists in Denver scream "Home rule! Home rule!" when they are trying to tell the rest of the state what to do :mad:

The rest of the state is pretty concervative. Boulder is the exception due to the university there.
Click to expand...
Well down here in Colorado Springs (which is pretty darn conservative/libertarian) I could see it pass easily.

If the state isn't able to pass this bill, I wonder if a watered down bill that allowed each county to decide if it would require CCWs could pass?

One thing I do know is that if we don't bang the drumloudly, this will go nowhere.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you have to beat the drum around the right people and zip your lip around the wrong ones ... as long as all the pro RKBA people hear about this it might have a chance but if the vocal antis get wind of it, they'll start the propaganda machine running overtime and it might hurt its chances.
 
"I love how the leftists in Denver scream "Home rule! Home rule!" when they are trying to tell the rest of the state what to do."

Truer words never spoken.

"Yeah, but you have to beat the drum around the right people and zip your lip around the wrong ones ... as long as all the pro RKBA people hear about this it might have a chance but if the vocal antis get wind of it, they'll start the propaganda machine running overtime and it might hurt its chances."

Bet the farm that the antis already are on top of this. They monitor this stuff as much as we do. "Can't wait" to see what the CO MMMs have to say about this through their own e-newletters ..... I'll post it when it comes on the screen - should be juicy.

We'll see, but frankly, I see it going nowhere. Hope to be proven wrong on this.
 
"To those who already have or want a concealed handgun permit, this bill changes nothing," Brophy said. "They may want to keep their permits so they can have reciprocity with other states that recognize Colorado's permitting system. However, many citizens can't afford to pay for the expensive training, fingerprinting and bureaucratic process the 2003 law created. And frankly, they shouldn't have to."
Click to expand...
Hear hear!

- Gabe
 
RMGO supported a bill similar to this (but not quite as cool) last year. But the NRA's state affiliate & others turned their nose up at it in favor of the CCW law that was passed last year. A CCW law that was worse in most ways than the law that it replaced. But it having Shall Issue in front of it made ir preferable to the May Issue law that was arguably less intrusive. For more on the differences betwixt the old law, new law & the RMGO's porposed but tabled law look here.

In any case this Vermont based approach will face opposition, but nto just from the anti's. Look for the Colorado State Rifle & Pistol Association (an NRA affiliate) to oppose or ignore it, as well as other groups you'd think would be on our side.

Hell, from what I understand a bunch of pro-hunting groups were in favor of a doubling of the hunting & fishing license fees proposed a few days ago. (BTW if anyone has any news on that lemme know. It was supposed to be heard in the legislature on Tuesday but I never heard how it turned out)

So what you might want to do is not just tell your friends ot support it, but tell them to call, write, etc... any pro-RKBA group they belong to & unequivically explain that if said org does not back the bill then they'll resign their membership & encourage others to do so. & I'd give the same ultimatum to any political parties I belong to as well.

That might make a bit of a difference, might not but I think it's the only realistic shot of getting the needed support to pass.

& JimPeel - please don't mention Degette. She supposedly represents my district, although it seems she doesn't give the views of her constituence any weight unless they mirror her own thinking. But thanks for reminding me about my representation...now I need a tylenol. :D

I'll hopefully have more on this in a few days so if anyone's interested I'll post anything I find out or opine in this thread.
 
I'm starting to think that we are witnessing the beginning of a sea change in American attitudes about firearm ownership.
Click to expand...

Speaking strictly as a Coloradan: I sincerely hope so! I'd be delighted to help lead the rest of the nation back to a common sensible understanding of the original meaning of the Second Amendment.

I'd guess Montana and Idaho and Utah would be likely to adopt this sort of legislation sooner than Colorado—they don't have Denvers—but I'm ready, willing, and able to help it happen here first. Heck, we could even make a contest out of it.
 
Labgrade:

In reference to...

>> There were previous turf wars between Sheriffs who have stated that their own would not be used to support other deputies at close-to county border instances if the Sheriff issued CCW, etc. <<

Was there ever any proof of that? Documents, memos, recorded statements by deputies, ANYTHING?

Because that would be some POTENT stuff to cram back down their throats...it'd be useful all the way out here in Calif.

------------------

Another thought: if this CO bill doesn't fly this year, maybe next year would be a good idea to try a "Vermont with training" approach. No permit needed, but if you're packing you need a "Guns 101 diploma" from recognized private training resources similar to the current CCW system (with the current cards also useful for the same purpose, of course).

The difference is, the gov't isn't involved and doesn't know who's packing, but the "safety element" to make it somewhat sheeple-friendly is retained.

This is a theoretical type of carry law that so far, hasn't actually been tried.
 
"Was there ever any proof of that? Documents, memos, recorded statements by deputies, ANYTHING?"

Jim, sadly no, just "loose talk" between a couple Sheriff Deps I am familiar with.

If I had even a sniff of such documentation, you can bet the farm it would have made its way onto a proper storage media, & to you as well.

Publicola,

Take a look at http://www.rmgo.org/billwatch04.htm for that hunting bill you mentioned. Link should keep one abreast ofthe sitrep.
 
GREAT idea, love to see it happen. But as other local's have mentioned, I don't think it stands a snow ball's chance of passing. The law's been in EFFECT less than a year. CO has a LOT of Libertarians, and a LOT more Libertarian leaning Republicans, problem is they're more than offset by the sheeple, the other problem is the Libertarian leaning Republicans tend not to be very politically vocal. i.e. "Sure Morgan, I'd love to see it pass, great idea, but no I won't write my congressman a letter."

As mentioned, there were two CCW bills in the state Legislature. One, was a near perfect bill, the other was a really, really crummy CCW bill. We passed the crummy one, and just barely. I can't figure out what RMGO is thinking right now. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

-Morgan
 
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