coach gun for the wife

[BullRunBear]

To my amazement, my wife mentioned an interest in a coach gun with external hammers for home defense. Our only other shotgun is a 12 ga. Browning pump. She can use it but it's a pretty long reach. (She's 5 feet tall.) She was very specific about having the external hammers.

I'm in unfamiliar territory. I have a muzzleloader SxS 12 ga. which I shoot well but have never even handled a coach gun. Any suggestions as to 12 or 20 ga., manufacturer/model, or any other factors would be appreciated. Cost is a consideration and I am not against buying used.

On a side note, I haven't hunted in many years but could see myself using it for bunnies or upland game birds. Just a pleasant thought. Also, friends keep asking me to try skeet but I've never had a suitable shotgun. My shotgun before the Browning was a bolt action.

Thanks for any help.

Jeff

I should have mentioned that she would actually pick out the gun but it would be nice to have a starting point.

 

[Milkmaster]

In my experience with my young daughter of small stature, the SxS works well. That shotgun is shorter naturally due to design and thereby easier to handle for ladies and/or kids. You get a 20 inch SxS with a youth stock on it, and it will be about as short as they can get. It makes for a handy shotgun for many uses in my opinion. Easy to operate and load as well. I bet your wife would do well with one. Good Luck!

 

[Aikibiker]

Like this?

http://www.baikalcanada.com/shot_guns_43K.htm

 

[oneounceload]

Just remember that a nice lightweight gun is going to have a lot more recoil compared to a heavier one using the same load. You might want to see if someone you know has one she can try out first to make sure she is comfortable with that

 

[jglcolosprgs]

You had better treat that woman like gold!

If my wife asked me for ANY gun I'd drop dead from shock!

I'd don't know enough about coach guns to help, but your wife is a keeper!

 

[Six]

Go to your local Cowboy Action match and you'll be able to see a wide variety of coach guns. There are probably going to be a few women shooting, so your wife can look at a few different guns and see how they feel.

While you're there, also look at how many experienced shooters with thousands of rounds through their gun slip on the hammers, or forget to cock them after they reload.

I'd really recommend against manually cocked hammers for a gun that will do home defense. Keep it simple.

My wife shoots a $300 Stoeger with the stock cut to fit as well as a good recoil pad, and she loves it.

If you want to shop around, I'd suggest the SASSNet forums where you'll find plenty of Cowboy Action shooters selling gear.

 

[rcmodel]

Hammer guns might be fine for someone who practices with them regularly, and are as familiar with them was their old shoes.

However, for someone who doesn't live & breathe hammer guns all the time, they are at best unsafe for a SD gun.

Suppose you forget to cock it during an attack in the middle of the night?
Suppose you cock it and a nervous twitching finger touches a trigger?
Suppose you do cock it, then don't shoot it?
You then have to un-cock it with trembling hands in the dark.
With the risk of your thumb slipping off a hammer and blowing a hole in the big-screen TV, or worse.

I think a pump gun is a safer bet for those bump-in-the-night moments.

All you have to deal with is a safety button, which requires two separate actions to push the safety off and then pull the trigger.

They have a bolt release to safely unload it with the safety on after all the excitement is over.
Without having to un-cock two hammers with sweaty hands.

rc

 

[Zundfolge]

Since its lighter weight I'd go with the 20ga (at "across the living room" distances there's really not enough difference in the power of 20ga vs 12ga to matter but recoil is lighter).

 

[BullRunBear]

Folks,
Thanks for all the advice. (And jglcolosprgs is correct, my wife is a gem. I was smart enough to learn that on our first date. At an indoor target range! It is because of her that we have a sweet CZ75b 9mm and the kadet adapter for it.)

We're not in a big hurry for a coach gun so she's agreed to try as many as we can find to see if hammers or hammerless suits her better. She has only fired a 12 ga. so I'm going to borrow a 20 to see if that makes a difference to her. Most of her shotgunning has been with my reduced power reloads.

My mechanical skills are limited but I can shorten the butt and install a recoil pad if needed.

Over the years we've put together a battery of rifles, muzzleloaders and handguns that fit her. The hunt for an appropriate shotgun should be fun.

Jeff

PS: I think what got her started was seeing an episode of Cowboys where women were shooting coach guns. Then she saw a picture of the model 1878 whike I was drooling over the Taylor's & Co. website.

Jeff

 

[Six]

Definitely visit a local CAS match then. I suspect people will fall over themselves in an effort to hand her a gun to try.

There is something special about a hammered coach gun with black powder loads

Maybe not terribly efficient for home defense, but awesome nonetheless.

 

[Mudinyeri]

We have a Stoeger Silverado 12 Ga. concealed in our master bedroom. It's simple and effective.

 

[TexasGunbie]

I bought a Stoeger Coach Gun 12 ga last year. It doesn't have the external hammer. It is a hard kicking shotgun, every shot felt like a tail whip by a dragon. If you don't like purple bruised chest, then you can add a recoil pad on there or something.

I would not get a coach gun with external hammer for home defense, I can imagine trying to fumble with the hammers when someone is breaking in... not good at all...

Besides, I don't think a coach gun have too much safety features, so if your wife slip on cocking hammer, you might blow out a window.

Give the Stoeger a try, I bought it for 340 out the door. It's robust and reliable. When you chamber the round, it automatically cocks the gun and at the same time put the safety ON. So all you do is flip the safety off and shoot away, rather than having to play with the hammers. (the hammer does make it look cooler though!!!!)

-Gunbie

 

[Gottahaveone]

There is some good advice on here. I have a Stoeger and am very happy with it. Several people have mentioned a 20ga. I have to disagree. The 20 doesn't kick much, if any, lighter than the 12 does and there are a LOT more ammo choices for the 12 than for the 20. I personally use the reduced recoil "tactical" 9 pellet 00 buck and the little SxS is really a joy to shoot. I have serious doubts that anybody on the receiving end of that load is going to notice the 150 fps lower pellet velocity. But it sure makes a difference on the trigger end. Good luck.......

 

[jakeiscrazy]

Suppose you forget to cock it during an attack in the middle of the night?
Suppose you cock it and a nervous twitching finger touches a trigger?
Suppose you do cock it, then don't shoot it?
You then have to un-cock it with trembling hands in the dark.
With the risk of your thumb slipping off a hammer and blowing a hole in the big-screen TV, or worse.

A lot of this logic doesn't work.
Suppose you forget to pump your pump action.
What if while your pumping it your finger touches the trigger.
Then you do pump it and don't fire, now you have unload it.
This applies the all firearms unless you keep a round chambered and cocked.

 

[Aikibiker]

I think Jeff Cooper was really on to something when he wrote this.

A lady of our acquaintance, who lives alone, has asked us what sort of instrument is best for house defense in her case. To me the answer is easy: The "Lupara," a double-barreled 12-gauge shotgun with exposed hammers and short barrels. I understand the term Lupara is Sicilian and means approximately "wolf killer." Such a piece is enormously authoritative, it is easy to use, it requires minimal training in its management, and it may be left loaded and uncocked indefinitely on the closet shelf. The only precaution is to seal the muzzles with scotch tape or cotton wool to avoid the building of nests in the barrels by little varmints.

Such items are available from Rossi and Baikal, though you may have to hunt around for them at gun shows. Usually they are very reasonable in price.

Most of us are "Gun Guys" (and Gals). We learn about different types of weapons because we are interested in them, some of us have a job that requires us to learn about them. We all know that a double barrel 12 ga is not the absolute best home defense weapon there is.

However not everyone is as turned on by firearms as we are. That doesn't mean they are not good people and don't deserve some sort of protection. And just like we all know that a 12 ga double barrel may not be the best out there, we know it is still very lethal and one of the simplest weapons for someone that isn't a "Gun Guy" to learn how to use.

 

[chieftain]

Next to the head of my bed are two long arms. One is a double barrel 12ga hammer gun with #1 Buck. It is the primary for in house social intercourse.

As to the OP's question, my 4'11" 100& nothing lbs, uses a Government sized Colt Combat Elite in 45acp of course (Has a Springfield EMP 9mm for CCW), but next to the head of her bed is a Double barrel Hammer gun I bought her in 20ga.

My daughter's only problem with certain weapons is what the gun itself weights. My 12 ga is to heavy for her, so I found a very nice 20ga hammer gun that she shoots the hell out of.

Just another option. I like double guns inside the house. Got plenty of other Iron to transition to. (the other long arm is a FN SCAR with Aimpoint T-1 mini reddot, on the night stand is a1911 rail gun with Surefire X-200B light attached including a Surefire DG switch (and the HK P30) and the new "J" frame I picked up about 12 years ago, now with a laser has increased the effective range of the Centennial "J" Frame, under the pillow.)

Good luck.

Fred

 

[Girodin]

I was very excited for a long while about getting a coach gun. When I finally got one in my hands I took it out on a range trip. I spent the first part of the trip shooting my Saiga 12. When I first picked it up I loved the feel of the light quick handling gun. I then started running the coach gun through its paces. I won't lie touching of some rounds of buckshot made me like my S12 a lot more and curbed some of my enthusiasm for the little coach gun. Honestly the federal bulk from wally world had more perceived recoil from the coach gun than 3" slugs and 3" 00 buck and 000 buck loads from the gas gun.

Nothing wrong with a coach gun but I think the substantial recoil of defensive loads is worth considering and if possible experiencing prior to purchasing one if it is possible.

I would not get a coach gun with external hammer for home defense, I can imagine trying to fumble with the hammers when someone is breaking in... not good at all...

I had a an external hammer gun that I used to hunt pheasants with as a kid. In all the "excitement" (I remember it scaring me half to death more than once) of a previously undetected pheasant flushing up in my face I never failed failed to cock that hammer. I understand your point but I don't think hammers are a deal breaker or that much more of hassle than "fumbling with the safety. Over the years I have seen more than one person fail to disengage a safety as a bird safely flew out of range. I've even known people who admitted to carrying their simple, "point and click" glock around all day only to later discover they had an empty chamber. Ingraining certain things be it disengaging a safety, cocking a hammer, or doing a press check prior to strapping on your gun is necessary to avoid issues with any weapon system.

Hammers also offer some, at least theoretical, advantages vis a vis leaving a cocked gun lying around. On paper one can debate back and forth but it really comes down to what the given individual is proficient and comfortable with.

 

[chieftain]

On paper one can debate back and forth but it really comes down to what the given individual is proficient and comfortable with.

BINGO!

Training, continued training, and of course the same stuff it takes to get to Carnage Hall, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Don't forget experience, but that comes after at least the initial Training and practice, and often can be very painful. Remember it's the Indian, not the arrow.

With out it, I don't care what you are using. Give me a trained experienced trooper with a single shot rifle, and the average hack with the latest simulated assault rifle. I will always bet on the trooper/Indian vs the arrow.

Some years ago, IIRC it was at Ft Bragg, early morning training for Special Forces, Rangers etal. some crazy trooper started shooting at them. They took him down, unarmed. Once again, the Indian not the arrow was the difference, in fact these guys didn't have any arrows at all, but they were highly trained and motivated folks.

Pick what you use best, get good training, and a bunch of "quality" practice (not standing at square range banging away at paper targets for recreation, don't confuse the two.).

Good luck.

Fred

 

[blindhari]

My Uncle had a double barrell, J Brown and Sons, Scotland that i learned to shoot as I was growing up. No external hammers or safety, I learned to carry it broken open as a safety. I never really noticed any delay in bringing it up and putting it in battery at the same time. I keep a H&R 20 guage cut to 20" barrell and 34" overall in the jeep for offroad and another like it over the bedroom door, open with a round in the chamber and five in the stock shell holder. K.I.S.S. has always seemed to work for me.
blindhari
ps KISS and practice

 

[FLNT4EVR]

I also have a shortened H&R in my bedroom .It's a 12ga. Loaded with buck and ball and 5 in the stock band.If a serious situation ever arose, I don't think that after the first round or two is fired any BG is going to hang around and "shoot it out ".I also have other arms I can go to but the H&R is my first responder.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I don't find my coach guns kick to be all that fearsome. I shoot quite a bit with light field loads and there's no issue at all.
With heavy buck loads there's a bit of a jab, but really, after you pattern the gun you don't really need to shoot those do you? Train with light skeet loads and then load up with buck for home defense.

 

[rcmodel]

A lot of this logic doesn't work.

O.K. How about this.

Every SD training school in the country, including Gunsite & Thunder Ranch cautions you to NEVER cock a DA revolver during a SD or HD encounter.
The chance of an ND is just to high.

Law enforcement found out many years ago a twitch of a nervous trigger finger on a cocked DA revolver in a high-stress encounter could lead to a ND killing someone being arrested for a minor offence.

So, how is that different then cocking two hammers, with two triggers, with two loaded chambers after a bump in the night?

Help me understand.

rc

 

[KodiakBeer]

So, how is that different then cocking two hammers, with two triggers, with two loaded chambers after a bump in the night?

Are you suggesting that only a double action revolver is appropriate for home defense? Any shotgun is single action.

 

[jakeiscrazy]

O.K. How about this.

Every SD training school in the country, including Gunsite & Thunder Ranch cautions you to NEVER cock a DA revolver during a SD or HD encounter.
The chance of an ND is just to high.

Law enforcement found out many years ago a twitch of a nervous trigger finger on a cocked DA revolver in a high-stress encounter could lead to a ND killing someone being arrested for a minor offence.

So, how is that different then cocking two hammers, with two triggers, with two loaded chambers after a bump in the night?

You can fire a revolver double action a SxS you can not. You fringer can slip off the hammers sure it's possible. It the risk you take. The alternative is a hammerless without it being loaded or loaded with the safety on. Either way you look at, you taking a chance when you chamber a round.

One question maybe they make one with transfer bars to solve the problem?

 

[Six]

The subject of external hammers vs hammerless for home defense might best be subject for a separate thread since the OP didn't really solicit opinions on that particular aspect.

Just my 2 cents