coach gun for the wife

[KodiakBeer]

You can fire a revolver double action a SxS you can not

You can't fire ANY shotgun double action, or any rifle, or any single action revolver, single action auto, etc.

 

[LemmyCaution]

You can't fire ANY shotgun double action, or any rifle, or any single action revolver, single action auto, etc.

You sure about that? Granted, it's an SBR, but…

I get your point, though.

The trigger pull on an H&R pardner shotgun is about 7lbs. That's heavier than many DA pistols. Yes, the SA trigger pull on my S&W M19 is very light and crisp. I don't train defensively to shoot in SA for that reason. The only circumstance I would shoot a handgun SA defensively is aimed fire from cover, after a firefight had already broken out. But with a shotgun, well, all my shotguns have about the same trigger weight, which is plenty heavy to avoid an ND, because I follow RULE 3 and RULE 4.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I think you're confused. I was responding to a post which seemed to be arguing that SxS shotguns were inappropriate because they were single action. I don't think they are, nor do I think any other SA is inappropriate for defense.

 

[Girodin]

I don't find my coach guns kick to be all that fearsome.

Well I'm a wuss. No I think my very soft shooting S12 has just spoiled me. I should be clear not to over state the case. The recoil was hard compared to my S12. Relative to some large rifles its not bad at all. Relative to my S12 or AR 15 it is a hard recoiling gun. It is not a brutal gun like the 460 Weatherby (That is one I genuinely don't like to shoot). I don't know that it even packs the punch of 450 marlin lever gun. For perspective I have friends that find it amusing to use theirs to shoot both barrels with buck. A light coach gun does have enough wallup with defensive loads that I could see it turning off some shooters. Its enough with defensive loads that I'd try before I buy if it is someone that doesn't have much experience with shotguns. I'm sure there are many people it will not bother.

 

[DHart]

All a coach gun needs to be comfortable to shoot for defense is a good recoil pad (Limbsaver is as good or better than any) and some reduced recoil 2 3/4" 00 Buck shot. No problem shooting that with relative comfort... but the butt pad is a must in my view.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I don't think you're even going to feel the recoil if you shoot in self-defense. Once you've patterned the gun with some buck, you can do all your practice shooting with light skeet loads.

 

[tinygnat219]

A 20 Gauge youth model pump shotgun will also work. They're usually pretty light, have a nice recoil pad, and 20 Gauge will do anything a 12 Gauge will at Home invader distances.

 

[oneounceload]

All a coach gun needs to be comfortable to shoot for defense is a good recoil pad (Limbsaver is as good or better than any) and some reduced recoil 2 3/4" 00 Buck shot. No problem shooting that with relative comfort... but the butt pad is a must in my view.

Proper fit is more paramount than recoil pad.

 

[huntsman]

I would avoid a recoil pad on a SD shotgun just as I do on a field gun, you don't want anything to snag on the mount.

You think that load of buck hurts your shoulder just wait till it goes off on your arm.

 

[chieftain]

A 20 Gauge youth model pump shotgun will also work. They're usually pretty light, have a nice recoil pad, and 20 Gauge will do anything a 12 Gauge will at Home invader distances.

Exactly why I got my daughter, as stated earlier here, a 20ga double hammer gun. At 4'10" she shoots the hell out of it. (no recoil pad, but then her primary range gun is a 5" Government model Colt in 45acp too)

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Coyote3855]

Suppose you do cock it, then don't shoot it?
You then have to un-cock it with trembling hands in the dark.
With the risk of your thumb slipping off a hammer and blowing a hole in the big-screen TV, or worse.

I think a pump gun is a safer bet for those bump-in-the-night moments.

rc

I can open my double with the hammers cocked, drop out the loaded rounds, let the hammers down on empty chambers. And I keep it next to the bed.

 

[DHart]

I have no catching of the recoil pad on my shirt on the way up to shouldering with any of my shotguns, given a slightly shortened LOP, which I prefer. But certainly each individual has different preferences and should go with what works for them.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I think you're confused. I was responding to a post which seemed to be arguing that SxS shotguns were inappropriate because they were single action. I don't think they are, nor do I think any other SA is inappropriate for defense.

No. I was agreeing with you. One should use whatever trigger one wishes for self defense, because one is, of course, following the FOUR RULES, and thus should not have an ND.

 

[Red Cent]

I strongly agree with Six. 'Course he has seen the same thing I have seen. For over seven years I have seen ladies develop a godawful flinch from a 20 gauge double. Almost as bad as the husband who buys the 12 double and goes to Wally World and buys those cheap black shotgun shells. YIKES!!

A majority of the ladies will quit the double and get a well fitted M97 with a 20" barrel.

That said, go to a match. The people, ladies especially, will overwhelm her with offers to shoot their shotgun.

I would never start any shooter with a 20 gauge double barrel, much less a 12 double.

 

[oneounceload]

Flinches develop because:

THE GUN DOES NOT FIT

no matter the load, if it doesn't fit, it is going to HURT!

It doesn't matter if the gun is a 410, 28, 20 or 12; a SxS, semi, O/U, or single shot - if it doesn't fit it's gonna hurt - just slapping a recoil pad on it doesn't mean it fits

 

[TexasGunbie]

so if the gun fits, then you don't feel recoil at all??

how do you choose a shotgun that fits?

I am 6'2 200lbs, and my Stoeger side by side kicks like it hates me. Now I can ignore the pain, but I can't ignore the purple chest it leaves me.

I always thought that it's the way shotguns are, so how do you choose a proper shotgun?

 

[KodiakBeer]

how do you choose a shotgun that fits?

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotgun-stock-fitting.html

In general, coach guns (for obvious reasons) have rather short lengths of pull. They aren't designed for extended trap and skeet shooting, but for emergency use.

However, if you shoot light skeet loads I fail to see how anyone can complain of excessive recoil unless you shoot a heck of a lot of them. If you're buying a coach gun for home defense (or bear carry, as mine is) then shoot enough slugs or buck to find the pattern you want (or slug that shoots to point of aim), then stop shooting the heavies.
When you want to play around, get some low brass skeet loads and play around. No reason to beat yourself up.

 

[chieftain]

THE GUN DOES NOT FIT

no matter the load, if it doesn't fit, it is going to HURT!

It doesn't matter if the gun is a 410, 28, 20 or 12; a SxS, semi, O/U, or single shot - if it doesn't fit it's gonna hurt - just slapping a recoil pad on it doesn't mean it fits

BINGO!

so if the gun fits, then you don't feel recoil at all??

It will not make you any smarter either.

how do you choose a shotgun that fits?

I am 6'2 200lbs, and my Stoeger side by side kicks like it hates me. Now I can ignore the pain, but I can't ignore the purple chest it leaves me.

I always thought that it's the way shotguns are, so how do you choose a proper shotgun?

You can look it up yourself. Here is a quick and dirty of a very complicated subject, when you really do understand it.

What "gun-fit" is all about

by rollin Oswald » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:37 am
Shotgun fit is a topic that is beginning to be occasionally discussed by hunters. That is good because if more hunters were using guns that fit, they would be able to shoot more successfully.

Fit refers to how well a stock's five basic dimensions fit the shooter using it. Most field shotguns have common dimensions. They are designed this way to fit an average shooter. This guy is 5' 10" tall and weighs 160 pounds. If those dimensions describe you, you have about a 60% chance of your gun's fitting you relatively well.

What is so important about gun fit, you might ask. Well... gun fit controls how well you will ever be able to shoot your gun. It affects the gun mount you are able to use; it affects how your head is positioned with your gun mounted; it affects the felt recoil you will experience when you shoot; it affects the accuracy of your swings to targets you shoot at and it can affect your vision if you wear corrective lenses when you shoot.

We shooters come in many different sizes and shapes. It is impossible for one set of stock dimensions to fit all of us. Some stock dimensions are more important than others. The height of the stock's come is one of the most important ones because it controls the height of your eye, which acts like the rear sight on a rifle.

When the eye is not properly aligned with the barrel or rib, the pattern doesn't go where you expect it to go. Sure, the eye can be raised by moving your head forward on a field stock with a rising comb but it won't necessarily stay there during swings.

You can also mash your cheek down on the comb to lower your eye so it's even with the rib but it will probably rise during swings.

You can also raise your cheek off the comb to raise your eye and allow it to look along the rib rather than at the back of the receiver or action but you will be likely to be mashed in the cheek during recoil for your efforts.

Making guns fit, i.e. stock fitting, has been popular with competitive shooters for years. Some shooting disciplines are more aware of well fitting guns than are others. Trap shooters awareness leads the population, followed by skeet and sporting clays shooters. It is a simple evolution of the importance of a well fitting gun.

I learned this long ago, the hard way, during many years of shooting over everything because of my low cheekbones. They placed my eye too far above the rib, much to the benefit of uncounted teal, mallards, pheasants and geese. Many lived because of my ignorance.

Gun fitting is an almost lost "ART" more than science.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[huntsman]

so if the gun fits, then you don't feel recoil at all??

how do you choose a shotgun that fits?

I am 6'2 200lbs, and my Stoeger side by side kicks like it hates me. Now I can ignore the pain, but I can't ignore the purple chest it leaves me.

I always thought that it's the way shotguns are, so how do you choose a proper shotgun?

For every action there's and equal and opposite reaction. How do expect something to hit with force but not have recoil?

If recoil is an issue then an auto-loader is what you need and fit may not be the only issue it could be the mechanics of your form, most want to shoot a shotgun like their rifle.

For a SD shotgun length of pull may not be as critical as drop and that can be corrected with a cheek pad.

If you need a recoil pad try a slip-on when shooting slugs or buck and then drill with light loads.

I've never fired a shotgun at another human but when I shoot at game I never notice the recoil.

 

[oneounceload]

so if the gun fits, then you don't feel recoil at all??

how do you choose a shotgun that fits?

I am 6'2 200lbs, and my Stoeger side by side kicks like it hates me. Now I can ignore the pain, but I can't ignore the purple chest it leaves me.

I always thought that it's the way shotguns are, so how do you choose a proper shotgun?

ACTUAL recoil is a mathematical calculation; FELT, or PERCEIVED, recoil is what you think it feels like to you.

The above referenced passage by Rollin Oswald is a good beginning - (He wrote the book on shotgun fit)

I'm 6'3", 250 and I shoot a 8-1/4# target gun in 12 gauge with 3/4oz loads - that's like shooting 28 gauge loads. When I bump it to 7/8 oz, all things remaining the same, I can notice the harsher recoil.

Too many think that just slapping a recoil pad, or slip-on is the answer - there's a LOT more to proper fit, and it also isn't cutting the stock to youth dimensions and trying to scrunch down on it either. Length of pull, drop at heel, drop at comb, pitch, toe-in or out, cast on or off, the type and shape of the grip, your personal body shape and design (chubby face, long neck, long arms, etc) all play a factor in gun fit. Just shouldering something in the store won't tell you. Finding a GOOD gun fitter is difficult and not cheap (but if you are going to shoot competitive, it would be a good investment).

There are a lot of aftermarket stock devices which can be modified to get it as close to you as possible. Even the time of year plays a factor - winter time with a coat on versus summer in a T-shirt makes a difference.

NO gun should give you a purple chest. Hopefully you mean the pocket of your shoulder, not your chest.

ACTUAL recoil can be reduced by firing the heaviest gun with the lightest load; FELT is reduced by proper fit whether through modifications to the stock or the use of one of the devices like a Gracoil, Soft Touch, G-squared, JS Air Cushion, Bump-Buster.