Coach gun too short for duck hunts?
- Thread starter wamj2008
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flipajig
Member
depends on the choke .
Depends.Got choke tubes?Full choke would help.But,you're increasing the chance for cripples.Something no one wants. i'm guessing you are looking to save money by using gun you already own.Buy a cheap pump/tubes at Walmart-say a Mossberg 500 for $200-300.It'll do fine for ducks,geese,everything.Spend a little more for an 870,you'll get alot more for the $.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
the 12 ga coach I have is choked i.c. right bbl and mod. left bbl which likley is best for short range as on a float trip down the river.
I doubt it would be best for the coastal areas or marshes if a better option exists.
I doubt it would be best for the coastal areas or marshes if a better option exists.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
In years gone by I tried a 12 ga. Rossi 20" hammer gun on doves a couple of times. IIRC it was choked IC and MOD. It did about as well as I usually do on doves with most any shotgun, better than 30% but not 50% hits. You just have to keep the gun moving to be able to hit with it, which is more of an issue with short barrels. And if your gun isn't choked, you'll have to wait for close shots.
If you're sharing a boat or a blind with someone, they might not like the short gun too much. You'll have to be really careful about muzzle control, and the muzzle blast will almost certainly be an issue. Personally I wouldn't use it for that reason alone, if someone else will be along.
lpl
If you're sharing a boat or a blind with someone, they might not like the short gun too much. You'll have to be really careful about muzzle control, and the muzzle blast will almost certainly be an issue. Personally I wouldn't use it for that reason alone, if someone else will be along.
lpl
snooperman
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Coach guns for hunting
I have a Remington Spartan, Russian Baikal, with choke tubes and have hunted quail and and Dove on my farm with it. It also doubles as a home defense gun. I think you would be pushing it a bit for Duck hunting , even with full choke tubes. You need the extra barrel length to insure complete powder burn and the extended reach that longer barrel affords, to eliminate wounds and do justice for a complete kill as much as possible.I like the coach gun concept and the versatility it affords, but it has its limitations.
I have a Remington Spartan, Russian Baikal, with choke tubes and have hunted quail and and Dove on my farm with it. It also doubles as a home defense gun. I think you would be pushing it a bit for Duck hunting , even with full choke tubes. You need the extra barrel length to insure complete powder burn and the extended reach that longer barrel affords, to eliminate wounds and do justice for a complete kill as much as possible.I like the coach gun concept and the versatility it affords, but it has its limitations.
MCgunner
Member
I use my spartan 20 gauge coach gun for doves almost exclusively. I love it choked I/C-mod for dove out to beyond 35 yards. It's a great little gun for teal hunting with 3" fast steel loads. You have to use steel shot on ducks, ya know. Steel, you want more open chokes than lead. Generally (confirm by patterning) a mod choke will pattern full, an IC will pattern mod. I choke the spartan cyl-IC for teal. Over decoys, it's a killer combination and even works fine on big ducks, though I sorta prefer my 12s on big ducks. But, a spartan 12 gauge coach gun would be fine. The spartan's mod and full choke tubes are not rated for steel, but you can buy aftermarket steel chokes that are. I need to go ahead and get a mod choke for mine that is steel rated. I could shoot right out to 50 yards using mod choke, as good as any.
The only down side I see to shooting a 12 gauge coach gun properly choked on ducks is recoil. 20 gauge 3" recoil is pretty stiff, actually, but I've put 10-15 or so rounds through it in a morning for a 5 bird limit with no problems. The GOOD part about the little coach gun is that it is very quick on those incoming early morning teal that fly in fast out of the dawn and are over the deeks before you notice. Yeah, it's a whippy little gun and you have to concentrate on smooth swing and follow through, but I am pretty used to it from all the dove hunting. It's becoming a favorite of mine for wing shooting up to ducks. Geese, well, it IS a 20 gauge. I used to hunt geese with my old 12 SxS and if it were steel shot capable, still could with hevi shot, but I can't afford to be shooting hevi shot. I could use it with bismuth loads, but hell, those make hevi shot seem economical. So, I bought a 10 gauge for geese and throw T steel at 'em. I don't think, even if you could find one, you'd wanna use a 6 lb 10 gauge coach gun for more than one or two shots. OUCH LOL
But, believe me, a 20 inch barrel, if properly choked, is as effective as a 36" long tom barrel. Like Lee suggests, handling is the main difference. It's going to be a bit whippy and you're going to have to learn how to deal with that. Recoil in a light gun is the only other disavantage I can think of.
The only down side I see to shooting a 12 gauge coach gun properly choked on ducks is recoil. 20 gauge 3" recoil is pretty stiff, actually, but I've put 10-15 or so rounds through it in a morning for a 5 bird limit with no problems. The GOOD part about the little coach gun is that it is very quick on those incoming early morning teal that fly in fast out of the dawn and are over the deeks before you notice. Yeah, it's a whippy little gun and you have to concentrate on smooth swing and follow through, but I am pretty used to it from all the dove hunting. It's becoming a favorite of mine for wing shooting up to ducks. Geese, well, it IS a 20 gauge. I used to hunt geese with my old 12 SxS and if it were steel shot capable, still could with hevi shot, but I can't afford to be shooting hevi shot. I could use it with bismuth loads, but hell, those make hevi shot seem economical. So, I bought a 10 gauge for geese and throw T steel at 'em. I don't think, even if you could find one, you'd wanna use a 6 lb 10 gauge coach gun for more than one or two shots. OUCH LOL
But, believe me, a 20 inch barrel, if properly choked, is as effective as a 36" long tom barrel. Like Lee suggests, handling is the main difference. It's going to be a bit whippy and you're going to have to learn how to deal with that. Recoil in a light gun is the only other disavantage I can think of.
chevyforlife21
Member
coach guns are usully cylinder choke thats bad for hunting you want mod or full idealy
MCgunner
Member
No you don't, not with steel shot. You want I/C-modified ideally, assuming your pattern tests prove this combination. Steel patterns different than lead. All spartan coach guns have screw in chokes and come with cyl to full tubes. This is necessary and why I got the spartan.
MCgunner
Member
Anyone remember the "turkey gun" craze, 20" barrels on pump 12s? A 20" tube is as effective as a 28", just has to pattern well. My H&R 10 gauge turkey has a 24" barrel on it, came with an X full tube. I bought the modified tube for ultra tight patterns with steel T. It tosses 95 percent patters on a 30" circle at 40 yards. Don't get no better than that!
JWF III
Member
Get yourself in a tight beaver pond, shooting fast moving Wood Ducks at 10 yards or less, and you'll wish you had something more open than a cylinder choke. I bought a Briley Dispersion (sp?) choke just for this situation.
I regularly shoot cylinder chokes over decoys, depending on the range needed. The tightest choke I use for steel shot is a Kick's High Flyer IC. It patterns similar to a improved modified with lead. With larger "goose shot" (BBB or T) it will pattern even tighter.
A coach gun could be effectively used as a "duck gun". But a longer barrel (or set of barrels) will help smooth out your swing and follow through. The coach gun will require more practice to achieve the same form and fluidity.
In shotgun's, any gun can be used for a multitude of uses (almost all uses as a matter of fact). But any gun that is at the extreme of specialization will make many things more difficult. Yes, .410s and 28 gauges can be used for goose, but the extremely low pellet counts will make it tough on you. Same as using a 10 ga for upland hunting. It can kill a grouse/quail/dove very effectively, but it will wear you out carrying it for several miles of hiking.
Wyman
Thanks for all the answers. The coach gun I am looking at is Stoeger. The standard comes with an I/C in one barrel and a Mod in the other. I was looking for an all-around hunting shotgun... rabbits, upland birds, fowl, etc. I figured the coach would be good enough for the first two. I may decide to go with the Uplander, it has a 26" barrel. (and actually costs less at Dick's!) Sounds like the coach gun will most likely work but something with a longer barrel and more heft is a safer bet.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Whatever you decide on, it needs to have choke tubes to be steel shot safe for migratory waterfowl hunting.
If it doesn't, it will either be short & open bore with no or little choke, or in the longer guns, may even be Mod & full.
You can't shoot steel in them.
rc
If it doesn't, it will either be short & open bore with no or little choke, or in the longer guns, may even be Mod & full.
You can't shoot steel in them.
rc
John Peddie
Member
Even if your chokes, barrel length and the muzzle blast work out for you, it's a PITA to reload any break action gun in confined quarters, e.g. a duck blind.
oneounceload
member
Fixed chokes are usually easily changed if need be - either to new fixed choke sizes or threaded for tubes. The issue with coach guns are the short barrels - they do not give you enough length to get a smooth swing going and keeping it going, something that is essential for any type of bird shooting where they're flying
chas08
Member
Since upland hunting enters into the equation, the 26 inch barrel might be a nice compromise. The first year my wife hunted Ducks with me, she used her Baikal 20 ga SxS with 26 in. barrels. She did quite well for a beginner.
This point is well made. I've hunted with those who were exceptions to this rule, but the exceptions were very few. My wife has since upgraded to an 870 pump 12ga. And she has been eying my semi-autos.
I think the most important thing is; buy what you really want, do what it takes to get it to fit well, and try to shoot all the misses out of it.
MCgunner
Member
I never had any problem with that. I've not hunted in a blind with the Spartan, but 20" barrels are really compact for such things. I hunted exclusively with a 28" SxS 12 gauge for about 10 years, though, blinds or not. I don't hunt much out of blinds anymore, though, being as building a blind on the WMAs down here is verboten.
If a coach gun is impossible to shoot well, why do I do about as well, normally 2 to 2.5 rounds per dove, with my 20 gauge coach gun as with my 28" Winchester M1400 12 gauge? All it takes is a little concentration. Sure, it doesn't swing itself, but the pay back is that it's very quick to change direction or point. That pays dividends on doves, though ducks tend to fly a lot straighter.
I hunted ducks and geese with a light weight 12 gauge double with 28" tubes for years. I used a Mossberg pump for several years straight, then one hunt, I wanted to shoot my old double again, so I took it. I wasn't used to it and it's very muzzle light and whippy compared to a repeater. Yeah, for the first few rounds, I was not doing well, but then I got down and started concentrating and got used to it and finished out my limit. It's really the shooter, not the gun. I particularly like the coach gun on doves for its quickness, but I tend to prefer my 500 or my 1400 for ducks mostly due to the 12 gauge patterning better than 20 gauge 3". The little 20 kicks pretty hard with 3" steel, too, which is okay, but the 12s soak it up a little better, especially the gas gun.
The choke issue has been covered pretty well, so I'll be brief. If you are hunting ducks, you'll need to use non-lead shot, probably steel, so you want no tighter than a modified choke. Your gun is likely IC-mod, which would be OK or possibly Cyl-cyl, which is not.
Choke aside, the real problem with coach guns is that the barrels are too short for a smooth swing. A double duck gun would have 28-30" barrels so that there is the proper balance for wingshooting. It is important. I suspect that you will find 20" tubes too whippy to hit anything with.
Choke aside, the real problem with coach guns is that the barrels are too short for a smooth swing. A double duck gun would have 28-30" barrels so that there is the proper balance for wingshooting. It is important. I suspect that you will find 20" tubes too whippy to hit anything with.
MCgunner
Member
Just to repeat myself. I mean, I'm not pontificating here. I've been there, done that.
kanook
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I entered a "sporting clays" contest one year long ago. My Sportsman 48 was down for the count and the only other shotgun at the time was my Mossberg 500 with 18 1/4" , heat sheild and speed feed stock. The comments and looks were priceless. Kinda like, "that shouldn't be allowed", and "he's wasting our time".
When we got to station 6 the comments were now "it's a wide open choke", and "the thing is so short he doesn't have to aim, just shoot".
Oddly enough I shot my best round (43 outta 50) and got fourth place. I upset a lot of people by bringing and shooting that thing. The only person who said "way to shoot that thing" was the owner of the range.
When we got to station 6 the comments were now "it's a wide open choke", and "the thing is so short he doesn't have to aim, just shoot".
Oddly enough I shot my best round (43 outta 50) and got fourth place. I upset a lot of people by bringing and shooting that thing. The only person who said "way to shoot that thing" was the owner of the range.
chas08
Member
.
I beg to disagree. While a 20" length may not be optimal for the purpose. Proficiency comes with practice. As has been stated in these threads many times over " it's not the arrow, it's the Indian"
MCgunner
Member
Well, a limit is a limit and I've done it with both.
chas08
Member
If you are used to shooting a 20 inch barrel at everything, and handle it like it's an extension of your body, and someone comes along and puts a 28 inch barrel in your hands, it will feel like a fence post. It's all in what you get used to. As I said, "it's not the arrow, it's the indian"
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