Stoeger Coach Gun useful?
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fatcat4620
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a rifle is a nail, a 12 gage slug is the hammer
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Useless? No, I don’t think so.
I own a Remington import Baikal coach, and I like it quite a lot. I’ve got a 500 and a 590, but they haven’t left the safe in many years now. When I wanted to hunt something with slugs, I used my NEF Ultra Slug Hunter. When I wanted to hunt turkey, I used my NEF single-shot turkey gun. It’s been over a decade since I took a repeating shotgun into the field hunting. I took my single shots out. They were much more comfortable. I took the 500 out once for rabbits, and never took it out in the field again. If I’d had this coach gun back when I hunted rabbits, I certainly would have used it and left that pump at home.
The coach is what we have for the house. My wife can make it work with minimal training, and that’s all she’s willing to do right now. Perhaps someday that might change, but even if it does I like the double too much in that role to go back to a pump.
I do think one with screw-in chokes might be more useful. Or perhaps one of those old, inexpensive Stevens 26” doubles with fixed chokes. Even with the longer barrels, a double is still shorter than an 18” pump. And I happen to think a trim double is a lot more comfortable carrying around in the field all day than a repeating shotgun. Every so often I’ll come across a hunter who prefers a double barrel or an over/under, and flat refuses to use repeating shotguns in the field. They’re usually seasoned fellows, and never bought into the notion that more ammo capacity made a hunter successful.
Actually, yes. The 18” Stevens 311R was made specifically for the policing community, long before Cowboy Actions games existed. For example, New York City PD had several hundred in their inventory well into the ‘80s, many decades after the pump was considered the “policing standard”. It was very common for NYPD to serve arrest warrants with an Officer on the team carrying a 311 as the only long gun they brought with them. Jim Cirillo’s crew used Stevens 311Rs as well. A coach gun is less expensive and time consuming to train a department on. It wasn’t until the notion of “modernizing” high-risk police response teams took hold that the coach gun started to get thought of as obsolete technology.
But since I’m not on a SWAT team, or in the business of clearing houses, what do I care what they do or don’t use? Contrary to what a lot of the non-policing gun community thinks, police officers don’t get to choose the guns they want to use. It’s decided for them, often by someone who doesn’t understand their job, with considerations and for reasons that might seem quite bizarre to the educated shooter. It might make you really disappointed if you mimicked their decisions because you were under the impression that they were buying that stuff because they thought it was “the best”.
I own a Remington import Baikal coach, and I like it quite a lot. I’ve got a 500 and a 590, but they haven’t left the safe in many years now. When I wanted to hunt something with slugs, I used my NEF Ultra Slug Hunter. When I wanted to hunt turkey, I used my NEF single-shot turkey gun. It’s been over a decade since I took a repeating shotgun into the field hunting. I took my single shots out. They were much more comfortable. I took the 500 out once for rabbits, and never took it out in the field again. If I’d had this coach gun back when I hunted rabbits, I certainly would have used it and left that pump at home.
The coach is what we have for the house. My wife can make it work with minimal training, and that’s all she’s willing to do right now. Perhaps someday that might change, but even if it does I like the double too much in that role to go back to a pump.
I do think one with screw-in chokes might be more useful. Or perhaps one of those old, inexpensive Stevens 26” doubles with fixed chokes. Even with the longer barrels, a double is still shorter than an 18” pump. And I happen to think a trim double is a lot more comfortable carrying around in the field all day than a repeating shotgun. Every so often I’ll come across a hunter who prefers a double barrel or an over/under, and flat refuses to use repeating shotguns in the field. They’re usually seasoned fellows, and never bought into the notion that more ammo capacity made a hunter successful.
Big Bill said:
Actually, yes. The 18” Stevens 311R was made specifically for the policing community, long before Cowboy Actions games existed. For example, New York City PD had several hundred in their inventory well into the ‘80s, many decades after the pump was considered the “policing standard”. It was very common for NYPD to serve arrest warrants with an Officer on the team carrying a 311 as the only long gun they brought with them. Jim Cirillo’s crew used Stevens 311Rs as well. A coach gun is less expensive and time consuming to train a department on. It wasn’t until the notion of “modernizing” high-risk police response teams took hold that the coach gun started to get thought of as obsolete technology.
But since I’m not on a SWAT team, or in the business of clearing houses, what do I care what they do or don’t use? Contrary to what a lot of the non-policing gun community thinks, police officers don’t get to choose the guns they want to use. It’s decided for them, often by someone who doesn’t understand their job, with considerations and for reasons that might seem quite bizarre to the educated shooter. It might make you really disappointed if you mimicked their decisions because you were under the impression that they were buying that stuff because they thought it was “the best”.
FruitCake
Member
I've been eyeballing S*S shotguns for a while now.
The wife wants one too and that's great. Very simple to use and effective.
I have a 12ga wingmaster. And a side by side would complete my 12ga collection.
More rounds is better but not always.
The wife wants one too and that's great. Very simple to use and effective.
I have a 12ga wingmaster. And a side by side would complete my 12ga collection.
More rounds is better but not always.
KodiakBeer
member
You may get more rounds with a pump, but a double will give you those first two shots much faster than you can cycle a repeater. I have a whole slew of rifles, big handguns and shotguns, but when I'm hiking or fishing around the big bears here on Kodiak I carry that cheap little Baikal coach gun.
It's also the gun leaned against the wall in my bedroom. It's short, handy and packs a big punch.
There's a trick I actually learned from watching a Peter Capstick African hunting video. When hunting, or when hiking around bears you can pop a couple of shells between the fingers of your left hand like cigars. They're spaced just right for a snap reload.
It's also the gun leaned against the wall in my bedroom. It's short, handy and packs a big punch.
There's a trick I actually learned from watching a Peter Capstick African hunting video. When hunting, or when hiking around bears you can pop a couple of shells between the fingers of your left hand like cigars. They're spaced just right for a snap reload.
mr_goodbomb
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You have no idea how little interest I have in what SWAT team guys use, and yes, I've heard of upland bird hunters using Stoegers.
Jon Coppenbarger
Member
I bought a stoeger SXS coach gun about 4 years ago and this thread made me dig it out. Its a satin nickle or what ever they call it. forgot how compact it was as I have not looked at it for a few years.
Shovelhead
Member
With the new 410 loads available since the debut of "The Judge", I've been considering a 410 chambered Coach for the Wife, (and maybe one for the Daughter so I can get my PT92 back that she took a likin' too after eating the center out of a target with it 
)
)Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
A short barreled SxS shotgun has oodles of versatility, but in fairness I find the 18-20" coach versions a little too twitchy for best handling.
Sicily's national shotgun, the Lupara, generally has barrels of 25-28", and serves as a general HD tool as well as a bird and small game harvester.
I talked to the cousin who now owns the one I built, thread in the archives, recently. He tells me that his took dove, squirrels and lots of rabbits last fall, and stands ready in the house with some Federal 00 in case things go bump in the night.
Barrels on that run 25", jug chokes give IC performances on both sides and it does well with a Winchester 1 oz HP slug in the right tube.
That one with a LOP similar to my 870s is a couple inches shorter than a riot barreled 870 and handles better than any coach gun I've tried.
A SxS with similar barrels can be had and would be way more useful as a GP shotgun than the coach guns......
Sicily's national shotgun, the Lupara, generally has barrels of 25-28", and serves as a general HD tool as well as a bird and small game harvester.
I talked to the cousin who now owns the one I built, thread in the archives, recently. He tells me that his took dove, squirrels and lots of rabbits last fall, and stands ready in the house with some Federal 00 in case things go bump in the night.
Barrels on that run 25", jug chokes give IC performances on both sides and it does well with a Winchester 1 oz HP slug in the right tube.
That one with a LOP similar to my 870s is a couple inches shorter than a riot barreled 870 and handles better than any coach gun I've tried.
A SxS with similar barrels can be had and would be way more useful as a GP shotgun than the coach guns......
KodiakBeer
member
Dave, I'm sure you're right that a longer double (or pump) is more versatile for all-around use. I sure wouldn't use my coach gun for ducks or trap, for example...
But, in the right situations these little coach guns can't be beat. Nothing in this power level is more portable for hiking in remote areas, for example. I don't think you can beat them for game like rabbits, or birds like ptarmigan and grouse which tend to flush close and slow. And, though some might disagree, I think they're the perfect home defense gun.
Best of all, they're pretty cheap.
But, in the right situations these little coach guns can't be beat. Nothing in this power level is more portable for hiking in remote areas, for example. I don't think you can beat them for game like rabbits, or birds like ptarmigan and grouse which tend to flush close and slow. And, though some might disagree, I think they're the perfect home defense gun.
Best of all, they're pretty cheap.
dprice3844444
member
that stoeger with the chokes is a very handy weapon.it's on my wish list of the future .great house gun too.you can buy rifled chokes for slugs.i still have my old 311 double with the long barrels packed away
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
if ever I head out to Grizz/Brown bear territory you can bet the Coach will have a 3" slug in one bbl and 3" 000 other bbl. well my revolver (.45) also.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
KodiakBeer, I'm not dumping on the coach guns. All you say is true.
But, everything in a shotgun is a tradeoff. Muzzle lightness means a bit more speed, but less inertia to keep the swing going. Short barrels are easy to turn, but blast and noise is increased,velocity may be slightly lower,etc.
The best answer here is, "If it works for you"....
But, everything in a shotgun is a tradeoff. Muzzle lightness means a bit more speed, but less inertia to keep the swing going. Short barrels are easy to turn, but blast and noise is increased,velocity may be slightly lower,etc.
The best answer here is, "If it works for you"....
oneounceload
member
The concept is a good one, the execution leaves a lot to be desired in the trigger, balance, and handling department..........let alone the rest of the quality. For those who think a Stoeger, or Baikal has a great trigger, please think again and see if you can try even a modest field gun like an Ugartechea..................let alone a Ljutic trap gun - once you have experienced the major difference, you will begin to understand...........
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
A couple things....
Long ago, I worked with some B-more narcs who had raid guns consisting of Savage SxS 20 gauges with 18" barrels. Some of the stocks had been shortened "Whippet" style but all could be shot from the shoulder. I tried them, quite fast if not sure, deadly within their limits.
The concept has much of merit. Like K/B said, nothing else gets off two powerful,well placed shots faster than a SxS. And for family members who are not as gun cognizant as we, the simple MOA of a SxS has a lot of appeal.
OTOH, like 1 oz said, the things oft are poorly balanced and hard kickers.
Short barreled shotguns are not irrevocably badly balanced. Churchill's XXV was a paragon of Brit game guns, and had barrels of just 25". The things turn like cutting horses and the little they lose in stability is compensated by agility on closer targets.
Creating a well balanced SxS is not that hard as long as one sticks to mid length barrels.
Long ago, I worked with some B-more narcs who had raid guns consisting of Savage SxS 20 gauges with 18" barrels. Some of the stocks had been shortened "Whippet" style but all could be shot from the shoulder. I tried them, quite fast if not sure, deadly within their limits.
The concept has much of merit. Like K/B said, nothing else gets off two powerful,well placed shots faster than a SxS. And for family members who are not as gun cognizant as we, the simple MOA of a SxS has a lot of appeal.
OTOH, like 1 oz said, the things oft are poorly balanced and hard kickers.
Short barreled shotguns are not irrevocably badly balanced. Churchill's XXV was a paragon of Brit game guns, and had barrels of just 25". The things turn like cutting horses and the little they lose in stability is compensated by agility on closer targets.
Creating a well balanced SxS is not that hard as long as one sticks to mid length barrels.
jfrey
Member
Everyone has an opinion, but this I know. I own 870's, 1100's, 11-87's, Stoeger 2000's, Winchester 1300, and a Beretta 682 skeet gun. I can't handle or shoot any of these easily one handed. The coach gun carries easily one handed and handles in close quarters a lot easier. So does my Judge. Each gun is generally designed to suit a specific purpose. No, the CG won't do well on geese, but neither will my expensive Beretta. As I said previously, the gun is fun to shoot and an interesting addition to my collection. I wasn't looking for a SWAT gun or a trap gun when I got it, just something different I didn't already have. I figure if the first two shots from the CG don't stop the problem, then the 1911 will take care of what is left. It probably isn't for everyone, but it works for me.
mgregg85
Member
I've got a stoeger coach gun, its a great deal, I bought mine used for $200.
Be warned, the firing pins are soft and should be replaced or at least sanded down. I ended up having to do this on mine when I noticed that one of the firing pins was sticking in it's collar. It took me about 20 minutes from start to finish to pull both pins and sand them down. I haven't had a problem with it since then. Eventually I'll probably break down and buy the hardend replacement pins.
Heres a source for the replacement pins, they also sell spanner wrenches for the firing pin collars but they aren't necessary if you just use two small drill bits and a screwdriver to make your own wrench.
http://www.longhunt.com/gunparts/stoeger.htm
Be warned, the firing pins are soft and should be replaced or at least sanded down. I ended up having to do this on mine when I noticed that one of the firing pins was sticking in it's collar. It took me about 20 minutes from start to finish to pull both pins and sand them down. I haven't had a problem with it since then. Eventually I'll probably break down and buy the hardend replacement pins.
Heres a source for the replacement pins, they also sell spanner wrenches for the firing pin collars but they aren't necessary if you just use two small drill bits and a screwdriver to make your own wrench.
http://www.longhunt.com/gunparts/stoeger.htm
KodiakBeer
member
I think we're all on the same page. The coach guns from Stoeger, Baikal, etc, don't balance particularly well and they do kick like a bee-stung mule with slugs or heavy buck. But... for the niches people buy them for, none of that matters. For home defense or for a sudden bear encounter in an alder jungle, a Browning superposed may not swing at all, since there may not be room to swing that long barrel. This is where you need a coach gun.
When hunting rabbits or the less-tricky upland birds you'll be using light field loads and the recoil from a coach gun is quite manageable. Beyond that - ducks, doves, trap, skeet, you'll be far better off with a standard shotgun.
For me, the most important factor is simply having a gun with an adequate power level. The fact that a coach gun can be stuck down the inside of your day pack with the butt hanging over your shoulder trumps every other gun out there. I have big bore revolvers, a Marlin guide gun, a .350 Rem Mag, and none of them beat the coach gun for having lots of power in a small package. The other things like home defense, rabbit hunting, etc, are just a bonus.
When hunting rabbits or the less-tricky upland birds you'll be using light field loads and the recoil from a coach gun is quite manageable. Beyond that - ducks, doves, trap, skeet, you'll be far better off with a standard shotgun.
For me, the most important factor is simply having a gun with an adequate power level. The fact that a coach gun can be stuck down the inside of your day pack with the butt hanging over your shoulder trumps every other gun out there. I have big bore revolvers, a Marlin guide gun, a .350 Rem Mag, and none of them beat the coach gun for having lots of power in a small package. The other things like home defense, rabbit hunting, etc, are just a bonus.
Hypnogator
Member
I've used mine for skeet as well as HD. Not as good as a dedicated skeet gun, but it's fun! Mine has 20" Cyl & Imp Cyl chokes, functional outside hammers.
Mine has 20" Cyl & Imp Cyl chokes, functional outside hammers.Guns and more
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I looked at the Stoeger as a H/D gun.
I went with the Mossberg because the Stoeger was heavy, front heavy, and only gave two shots.
I went with the Mossberg because the Stoeger was heavy, front heavy, and only gave two shots.
winchester '97
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Either the Stoeger or just about any used pump you can find with an 18 to 20 inch barrel, the Norinco 1897 is a favorite of mine.
LibShooter
Member
I use my 311 with 21' barrels to kill those pesky orange clay pigeons. It kicks like a bad tempered mule. The next day I'm bruised halfway down to my belly button. But I still use it every time. That's how much I love that gun.
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