Coastguard needs our support.

[real_name]

In Michigan there is a debate unfolding as to the future viability of live ammunition practice on the Great Lakes by the US Coastguard.
Local environmentalists are claiming that the resultant lead deposits would be an ecological disaster.

The Coast Guard is proposing the establishment of 34 zones throughout the Great Lakes that will periodically be used for live gunfire training exercises.

The environmentalists argue that,

The drills will distribute approximately 7,000 pounds of lead into the Great Lakes annually, according to the “Coast Guard Preliminary Health Risk Assessment for Proposed U.S. Coast Guard Weapons Training Exercises Study.”

This would make the Coast Guard the leading producer of lead in the Great Lakes. Michigan industries distributed 4,069 pounds of lead compounds into surface water in 2004, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

But,

According to James Maughan, Ph.D., the vice president of water resources for CH2M Hill, which conducted the study, said the study operates under a worst case scenario. Maughan said the pounds of lead distributed would be less than what was indicated in the report.

For example, the Coast Guard will use 3,000 rounds per year in each zone. The study used 10,000 rounds to determine the impact, Maughan said. The bullets contain copper, antimony, zinc and lead. The study also considers the impact left if the zones were utilized for drinking purposes. Maughan said the results indicated that the water would be safe for drinking. The zones, however, are at least five miles away from drinking water intakes.

“The study concluded that there would be no elevated risk to humans or the environment” Maughan said.

LINK to news story in full

We can help by passing on rational and informed comments to the debate.
I'm not fully sure if they are welcoming input from outside the area but it can't hinder the process if they get a few polite reiterations that ammunition isn't solely comprised of lead etc.


By Mail: Docket Management Facility (USGC-2006-25767)

U.S. Department of Transportation

Room PL-401

400 Seventh Street SW

Washington, DC 20590-0001

By Fax: To the Docket Management Facility at (202) 493-2251

By the Web: Through the Web site for the Docket Management System at http://dms.dot.gov

The comment period is though Nov. 13, 2006

 

[Delta608]

Did I read somewhere that there is (was) some treaty with Canada about live fire training being prohibited there ..??

 

[mp510]

OK.

 

[ilbob]

It seems to me that the real issue is the way the CG muffed the whole thing. Instead of dealing with it in an open and up front manner, they made it near impossible for the people most likely to oppose it to even comment at the public hearings. Whether this was deliberate or not is an open issue. My guess is they never even considered that anyone would care.

My take is that if they are going to issue such weapons to CG crews, they need to practice with them, and they need to do so on open water.

Personally, I wonder what they need them for on the Great Lakes. It is not as if Canada is likely to invade.

 

[lotus]

What a bunch of crap.

Look at the following info presented:

The drills will distribute approximately 7,000 pounds of lead into the Great Lakes annually

and

For example, the Coast Guard will use 3,000 rounds per year in each zone.

At 3000 rounds per zone you get 63 lbs of lead per year (3000*147gr/7000). That would mean the Coast Guard intends to have 111 zones instead of the 34 they intend to use. The claim of 7000 lbs is exagerated by 3 times the reality.

 

[Car Knocker]

Personally, I wonder what they need them for on the Great Lakes.

I believe the CG still has a training center there.

 

[69Chevy]

Did I read somewhere that there is (was) some treaty with Canada about live fire training being prohibited there ..??

It is de-militarized, so they can't have weapons of war. But I think there was an agreement between us and the canadians that we could have .30 cal machine guns mounted on the ships because they could be useful for law enforcement(and not waging war). And this would just allow them to train with them I suppose. This is based on an old article I read awhile ago, so if I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me.

 

[Delta608]

69Chevy, Im pretty sure that what I read...Thanks !!

 

[real_name]

USCG website link pertaining to this subject.

In reply to the argument that the northern border isn't a problem and that the CG should concentrate elsewhere, we should consider all borders as porous, all borders as lines of defense, all borders as important. If we don't we will be creating an achille's heel that the enemy is likely to exploit.

 

[Joe Gunns]

Not just the enviros are concerned. Latest issue of the BoatUS (largest national boaters organization) magazine had a big article and an editorial comment on this asking members to get involved as some proposed designations would affect public access to good recreational boating and sport fishing areas. Not being familiar with the Great Lakes, I dunno if that concern is accurate, but the maps accompanying the article made it look like some really big areas toward the US side of each of the lakes would be affected.

 

[real_name]

Great Lakes Tourism has 3 stories about it on their front page too.
http://www.great-lakes.net/tourism/rec/boat.html

To me this seems to be a classic NIMBY reaction, but when the proof comes in that there are terrorists illegally crossing the border there I guess it will be too late.

 

[LanEvo`]

Any reason they can't use lead-free rounds? What about those sintered metal rounds that seem popular at indoor ranges these days?

While I'm all for training the USCG, it IS true that lead, mercury, and other heavy metals are rather damaging to drinking water and to aquatic life.

 

[DRMMR02]

Lead is a naturally occurring element. How can a mere 7000 lbs of something that is in nature anyways in a body of water hundreds of miles long, have any real environmental impact?

 

[Delta608]

In reply to the argument that the northern border isn't a problem and that the CG should concentrate elsewhere, we should consider all borders as porous, all borders as lines of defense, all borders as important. If we don't we will be creating an achille's heel that the enemy is likely to exploit.

Well of course you are right...But not in the real world of limited resources.

 

[real_name]

limited resources.

Money spent in Iraq chasing shadows and forcing democracy on sworn enemies.

I would say if we took a few billion out of that pot and put it in the CG pot then everyone would be happier.

 

[Delta608]

Money spent in Iraq chasing shadows and forcing democracy on sworn enemies.

I would say if we took a few billion out of that pot and put it in the CG pot then everyone would be happier.

Not all problems can be fixed by throwing more money at them....If every Border Patrol officer and every INS Agent and Inspector (Pre-Homeland Security ) were placed on the northern border, they would be spaced 15 miles apart, no lunch breaks or shifts....Just a fun fact... Do we really want the Federal Gov't to be the largest employer...I dont have an answer... But I guess Im getting off topic...(N

 

[wolf_from_wv]

They're worried about lead in the Great Lakes? Have they cleaned them up enough to worry just about that?

What about the diesel, gas, oil, metal, etc. from all the shipwrecks?

Do they still dump the dioxins from all the manufacturers in the Lakes?

 

[dm1333]

Not to get sarcastic, but........

Some residents are concerned about what they called the militarization of the Coast Guard.


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I just pulled my ID Card out and in the upper right corner it still says "Armed Forces of the United States". The training zones are there so boat crews can qualify with the M240 because many of the Great Lakes stations have PWCS missions. If you start googling the 9th District you can also find some pretty interesting figures on the amount of drugs crossing the lakes. The Border Patrol has also intercepted some bad guys trying to come in from the north including a couple of yahoos who thought they would be able to smuggle plastic explosives into Washington State by taking a ferry from Victoria to Port Angeles. One thing I have not checked is the availability of frangible ammo in .308 and whether or not it could be easily linked. That would have sidetracked a lot of concerns.