cock or rack?

[dashootist]

Got a Makarov PM for CC. It's a DA/SA style pistol. My first bullet can't hit the side of the barn because of my small and weak hand and the Mak's long double action trigger reach and terrible pull. But I can hit the bullseye with single action! So, I'm left with two options. One is to carry with a round in the chamber and hammer down and cock the hammer for the first round. Two is to carry with an empty chamber and rack the slide for the first round, a.k.a. Israeli combat carry. Which would you prefer?

 

[Frozen North]

I would not carry with an empty chamber. If you have a chance, you can cock the hammer, if not you can take your chances with the #20 da trigger pull.

You need both hands and a couple seconds to rack a slide.

 

[txhoghunter]

I don't see the point of CCing without a loaded chamber.

If you are going to have to use your pistol in a defensive situation, chances are, you won't have the time to rack the slide. Heck, you might not have time to cock the hammer.

But, practice, practice, practice and it can become a fluid part of your draw (and practice doing it one-handed).

 

[Nushif]

Learning a bad trigger (read:longer and heavier than *any* 1911) will make you a better shooter overall I think.

It's relatively easy to shoot a match tuned uber tuned 1911 well, but shooting a Makarov well requires a lot of practice and training.
Instead of going the short route I'd say learn the trigger pull on the Mak and consider it an investment in training. 8)

 

[westwood45]

I have to agree with the above, I would never carry with the chamber empty. Thought the DA may not be accurate it's better than nothing going bang at all

 

[Trebor]

Neither option is good. Empty chamber carry is bad because you aren't guaranteed that you'll have both hands available when you need your gun. Cocking the hammer manually is awkward and slow. If you really can't hit anything with that first DA shot then I suggest the Makarov is the wrong gun for you.

I reccomend something with a lighter trigger pull, either a single-action like a 1911, or a striker fired design like the Glock or S&W M&P.

 

[nalioth]

My first bullet can't hit the side of the barn because of my small and weak hand

Half of that equation can be cured with a squishy-ball (or whatever the name of the ball-thing is that people squeeze to build up their hand muscles).

 

[JohnBiltz]

My pick would be different gun.

 

[woad_yurt]

How about putting in some DA practice time? Maks are great pistols and it's a shame to use them in a compromised fashion. I have a couple of petite female friends with tiny hands who have no problem with mine. However, they're both pretty proficient with shooting DA revolvers. They were lousy at first but got pretty good after practicing some dry-firing in DA for a while. I suggest doing the same.

Unless:
Is there something physically wrong with your hand? If so, then you need another gun.

About racking a Mak:
It's one of the stiffer pistols out there to rack and I wouldn't want to bank on having both hands available and sufficient time to do so under a self-defense situation. The ol' "seconds count" thing comes to mind....

 

[mgmorden]

My pick would be different gun.

Pretty much agree, but if you're staying with ti, I would say just carry it uncocked but round in the chamber. Take your first shot with the bad trigger pull. Do your best to keep it on target but realistically, just view the first shot as your cocking shot. Hit with the next one. At a minimum you may send the perp running at the sound of the shot. At worse you're only a single shot down.

Also, practice that DA shooting on silhouette targets. I'll readily admit that I'm not all that great of a double-action shot, and will miss my standard little targets completely about half the time if I'm shooting with any speed, but I typically tape those to a silhouette target, and I'm pretty much always hiting at least THAT with my DA shots. Your bad first shot might still connect -PARTICUARLY at self defense ranges which tend to be in the 3-5 yard range.

 

[HM2PAC]

Take your first shot with the bad trigger pull. Do your best to keep it on target but realistically, just view the first shot as your cocking shot. Hit with the next one. At a minimum you may send the perp running at the sound of the shot. At worse you're only a single shot down.

Probably not the best idea. If you pull the trigger you are responsible for whatever that bullet does.

I would say either strengthen your hand, practice and get better with the double action, cock the hammer on shoot single action, or look for a new weapon.

 

[Guns and more]

I'll stick to your actual question.
My answer would be, "It depends."
Which is faster and easier?
I have a Sig 238, a great little gun. It is easier to rack the slide than cock the hammer.
On other pistols I own, it's the other way around.
Practice.

 

[mgmorden]

Probably not the best idea. If you pull the trigger you are responsible for whatever that bullet does.

True, but realistically most people who aren't driving nails in double action still aren't exactly shooting the reverse direction. When it comes down to that point you have already made the decision to fire in the direction of the criminal. NOBODY - and I do mean nobody - can guarantee 100% hits on a moving target in a stressful situation. If you aren't comfortable with a shot in that direction possibly missing then you may as well just not bother pulling the gun out at all.

 

[SSN Vet]

sounds like DA/SA is not compatable with your physical limitations.

time to move on to a more appropriate carry option

 

[CoRoMo]

...the Mak's long double action...

You want to keep that option available. If you ever have to grab for that pistol to use it, you don't want to HAVE to remember to cock the hammer or rack the slide. You'll want it ready to rock, even if it's going to be difficult to function.

 

[HM2PAC]

True, but realistically most people who aren't driving nails in double action still aren't exactly shooting the reverse direction. When it comes down to that point you have already made the decision to fire in the direction of the criminal. NOBODY - and I do mean nobody - can guarantee 100% hits on a moving target in a stressful situation. If you aren't comfortable with a shot in that direction possibly missing then you may as well just not bother pulling the gun out at all.

Agreed, that is all true, however the OP states not even being Minute of Barn Door in double action. Big difference in being proficient and missing by inches and not being proficient and knowingly pulling the trigger on a round that you have no idea where it is going.

 

[BCRider]

How often to you actualy practice with the first DA shot? Perhaps you just need to practice it more rather than try to come up with ways to avoid it.

As someone that shoots in IPSC Production class and IDPA SSP I have to use the trigger on my guns in DA for the first shot. To aid in this I've done a fair number of draw and fire one shot drills learning to get used to the first DA pull shot. I'd suggest that you should do the same.

As the Mak' has a decocking safety at least you do not need to learn how to lower the hammer onto a live round safely with your thumb.

Also keep in mind that most of your DA first shots where you don't have the time to hand cock the hammer will occur at very close quarters and in a hurry. As such that "barn door" is pretty darn large. So some practice to just get better with the pull should be enough to ensure an adequite, if not superb, accuracy. As such it would be reasonable to set up a typical opponent size target at 5 yards and if you can put all your draw and fire first DA shots reasonably into the COM area you're golden. Then with the first DA shot out of the way you're good for a fast followup shot or two in SA.

There's always the option of fitting the gun with a Wolff reduced power mainspring. I know that many will say that this will make the gun potentially unreliable. But if you test it in practice for long enough to know that it'll fire 1000 out of 1000 rounds without a light strike I'd suggest that this is reliable enough. And certainly a Wolff kit will reduce the trigger pull effort needed for a DA shot.

 

[Smoothone566]

I was wondering if, my friend should get rid of his Jennings Nine. I will say that I think he has never shot the pistol. We however noticed that it has been stamped (by the facotry) with x's in the slide. My thinking was it was supposed to be a .380, but then decided the last minute to change it to 9mm. I was wondering if it was like a coin that has been double stamped, in that it is a collectable??? Any information would be appreciated. I would say that the last gun I bought was a Taurus PT-1911 AR.

 

[NMGonzo]

You gunfight is going to be at arms reach.

You gonna hit them all.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

It depends on which you can do faster.

Knowing nothing about Makarovs, I ask, is a trigger job an option?

 

[shotgunjoel]

Let's say that you have one in the chamber, hammer down. You would also have a fully loaded magazine. If you draw and decided for whatever reason to rack the slide instead of cocking the hammer, that's just the same as having no round in the chamber. Sure, you'll eject the round in the chamber, but otherwise it's identical to having an empty chamber, same round count and battery of arms. I'd say carry with one in the chamber, and either cock it or rack it, whichever works best in the situation; keep your options open.
Edit.
Let's compare your options:
1. Empty chamber, one option, you have to rack the slide to shoot.
2. Loaded chamber, 3 options. 1, you can shoot double action. 2, you can cock the hammer. 3, you can rack the slide as if no round were chambered.
Options are good to have.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I don't see the point of CCing without a loaded chamber.

Learning a bad trigger (read:longer and heavier than *any* 1911) will make you a better shooter overall I think.

If you really can't hit anything with that first DA shot then I suggest the Makarov is the wrong gun for you.

I'd walk away from this with those 3 points, particularly number 3.

Re-read your own post. You have a weapon that when carried, you are unsure of the 1st shot's accuracy.

Maybe it is time to reevaluate your choice in a carry weapon?

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // Can the Mak be carried half cock, safety on like my CZ75B?

If so would you be comfortable carrying one in the chamber that way.
I carry at half cock, safety on and the first DA pull is reduced helping my accuracy.

I don't have a Mak to check.

 

[Steve C]

Double action shooting takes a bit of practice and I'd recommend that you carry your Mak with round chambered for CCW and work on using the DA feature a bit. Self defense isn't target shooting and the BG in most situations is likely to be very close. Often careful aiming is a waste of time that can get you killed at close quarters so point shoot in DA mode is the best option. If you have the time to cock the weapon then do so but practice some double action shooting. I have 2 Maks, Russian and Bulgarian, both of which have quite adequate DA trigger pulls. Try using the middle of first pad on your trigger finger rather than trying to wrap you finger to the first joint.

Hello friends and neighbors // Can the Mak be carried half cock, safety on like my CZ75B?

The Mak doesn't have a half cock.

No pistol should be carried at half cock as the half cock is designed to catch the hammer should it accidentally slip from the shooters thumb during manual cocking preventing an AD. If the hammer slips before the half cock there isn't enough force to set off the round. The half cock notch is usually minimal in its capacity to hold the hammer. A drop on a hard surface could sheer the sear or bounce the hammer off the notch causing an AD.

 

[content]

Thanks for the advise.

I notice the spur protects the hammer from this when at full cock.
I did not know half cock, safety on was so fragile.