CZ product line confuses me questions

[SSN Vet]

The CZ 75 has piqued my interest several time, but I have very little trigger time on DA/SA handguns and their product line confuses me a little.

on a CZ75B:

Q1: When you rack the slide to chamber a round, does the hammer stay cocked or return to the de-cocked position?

Q2: When you have a round chambered and the hammer down, can you engage the safety?

Q3: When a round is chambered and the hammer down, can you thumb cock the hammer and engage the safety for Condition 1 carry?

Q4: With a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, if you drop the mag and cycle the slide to eject the chambered round, will the hammer stay cocked or de-cock?

Q5: Does the CZ75BD have three positions on the safety/decocker lever? (safe, fire, decock)

Q6: Does the CZ75BSA have a decocker?

Q7: Which CZ has the best out of the box SA trigger pull?

I'm sure there will be more Q's to follow, but this will get me in the ballpark.

 

[drband]

The CZ 75 has piqued my interest several time, but I have very little trigger time on DA/SA handguns and their product line confuses me a little.



on a CZ75B:



Q1: When you rack the slide to chamber a round, does the hammer stay cocked or return to the de-cocked position?



Q2: When you have a round chambered and the hammer down, can you engage the safety?



Q3: When a round is chambered and the hammer down, can you thumb cock the hammer and engage the safety for Condition 1 carry?



Q4: With a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, if you drop the mag and cycle the slide to eject the chambered round, will the hammer stay cocked or de-cock?



Q5: Does the CZ75BD have three positions on the safety/decocker lever? (safe, fire, decock)



Q6: Does the CZ75BSA have a decocker?



Q7: Which CZ has the best out of the box SA trigger pull?



I'm sure there will be more Q's to follow, but this will get me in the ballpark.

1. Cocked
2. No
3. Yes
4. Cocked
5. Not sure, but think so. Would be very easy (too easy) to decock unintentionally flipping off safe. I think the whole decocker idea is to start from DA if flipping off the safety.
6. Don't think so. It's. SA.
7. Opinions will vary.

Disclaimer: I own a 97B, functionally identical to a 75B.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Q1: When you rack the slide to chamber a round, does the hammer stay cocked or return to the de-cocked position?

A1: The hammer remains cocked until decocked, whether manually (on safety-equipped models) or via the decocking lever.

Q2: When you have a round chambered and the hammer down, can you engage the safety?

A2: No. On safety-equipped models, the safety will only engage when the hammer is cocked.

Q3: When a round is chambered and the hammer down, can you thumb cock the hammer and engage the safety for Condition 1 carry?

A3: Yes, but this would have required first lowering the hammer manually on a live round.

Q4: With a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, if you drop the mag and cycle the slide to eject the chambered round, will the hammer stay cocked or de-cock?

A4: As in Q1/A1, it will remain cocked until lower manually or via the decocking lever.

Q5: Does the CZ75BD have three positions on the safety/decocker lever? (safe, fire, decock)

A5: No. The decocking lever functions only as a decocker, as on SIGs (and unlike Berettas or H&Ks.)

Q6: Does the CZ75BSA have a decocker?

A6: No. It would be pointless on a single-action model.

Q7: Which CZ has the best out of the box SA trigger pull?

A7: The SAO models are generally thought to have the best SA pull. The DA/SA models have some camming action even in SA mode.

 

[Snejdarek]

Q5: Does the CZ75BD have three positions on the safety/decocker lever? (safe, fire, decock)

CZ 75 BD has decocker lever only. It does not combine decocker and safety. If you are considering CC, I'd suggest looking into CZ 75 Compact D with aluminum frame ("PCR" in the US).

Also, it should be mentioned that the decocker will decock the hammer 3/4 down. So the double action on the decocker model starts from different position than double action on safety model (or on manually decocked hammer in decocker model). The DA pull is thus a tiny bit shorter on decocker.

Q7: Which CZ has the best out of the box SA trigger pull?

I've heard a lot of praise on the new P07 and P09 models and I'd guess that other Omega trigger models will be similar to those.

Other than that CZ 75 Tactical Sports will probably be right there in this category with its SA only trigger.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Q7: Which CZ has the best out of the box SA trigger pull?

Internally, the SA models and the DA/SA models are the same. The differences are in trigger shape and the fact that the disconnector has been removed on the SA, so that the SA gun isn't able to function in DA mode.

Most SA models seem -- if comments on the web are indicative of anything -- to have the best SA triggers, but I think it's all a matter of "luck of the draw." Some of the CZ models available through local dealers are CZ Custom Shop guns, and they sometimes do some extra work on those models -- they're not in the condition they leave the factory when you buy them. The SA models I've owned, with one exception (which was used, and very well-gunsmithed before I got it) had better triggers than the DA/SA models.

Hammer "camming" (in which the cocked hammer moves to the rear before it drops when the trigger is pulled) seems to be a relatively recent CZ (designed) development -- perhaps to make the SA trigger less "light" for reasons of corporate liability. But it's a frustrating thing for many shooters. After-market hammers easily resolve that issue and they're available form CZ Custom and Cajun Gun Works.

As noted above, the decocker lever is a single-function lever. It decocks and doesn't work as a safety. If you have a safety model, the safety lever only works IF the hammer is fully cocked. (Some CZs will cock if the hammer is in the half-cock position, but CZ tells me that means something is worn, and should be checked.) Many of the CZ-pattern guns (wrongly called clones) will allow the safety to be used in any hammer position.

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As noted above, with the exception of the Omega P-07 and P-09, the decocker models (even the Omega models in the steel frames) can't be converted to safety, or vice versa. The P-07/P-09 are user changeable (in theory, at least.)

The decocker guns decock to the half-cock position (although its actually closer to a quarter-cock position); that's also where these guns start from, after being decocked. That gives the guns a shorter and slightly lighter trigger pull. The DA/SA safety-equipped guns can be started (and carried) from that position, safely -- but you can't do that in IDPA competition.

All of the 75B and later CZs have a firing pin block and the firing pin will only move if the trigger is pulled fully to the rear, so dropping a loaded gun, or the hammer being slammed is not a concern.

 

[bikerdoc]

Very comprhensive answers here. Let us know what decide.

 

[SSN Vet]

Great responses... thank you very much...

Follow up questions...

Q8: On a straight 75B, after racking the slide to chamber a round, if you want to operate the gun in DA mode, do you have to de-cock it manually? (as in slowly lower hammer on a live round?)

Q9: On a straight 75B, is there any type of firing pin block (thinking DA revolver here) that prevents you from accidently discharging the weapon while manually de-cocking the hammer?

Q10: It sounds like Walt is saying that the new 75SA models have "hammer camming" where the earlier ones did not. Did I understand this correctly?

Q11: I have a BHP with the mag. disconnect is pulled, and the trigger is crisp, but still heavy (@7 lb.). How does the 75SA trigger compare?

Q12: It looks like either the the B or SA can be had in 9mm NIB for ~$550. Sound about right?

Q13: How do the 75s handle .40 S&W? I'm guessing there's enough mass in that steel frame to tame the 40.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Q8: On a straight 75B, after racking the slide to chamber a round, if you want to operate the gun in DA mode, do you have to de-cock it manually? (as in slowly lower hammer on a live round)

Q9: On a straight 75B, is there any type of firing pin block (thinking DA revolver here) that prevents you from accidently discharging the weapon while manually de-cocking the hammer?

Exactly. Decocking is a basic gun handling skill. (Arguably it's much less dangerous than drawing and firing from a holster, but everyone freaks out about decocking.) I've done it and seen it done safely hundreds of time in matches and nobody goofed up.

Q10: It sounds like Walt is saying that the new 75SA models have "hammer camming" where the earlier ones did not. Did I understand this correctly?

That seems to be the case for CZ in general, but I've not heard it mentioned as often with the SA models -- but it is mentioned. Hammer camming was not an issue 10-15 years ago, but is mentioned now frequently. But some guns seem to be worse than others.

Q11: I have a BHP with the mag. disconnect is pulled, and the trigger is crisp, but still heavy (@7 lb.). How does the 75SA trigger compare?

Probably similar, but the CZ trigger is easily changed by replacing the hammer springs with something lighter. Going from the stock 20lb. or so down to 17lb, or 16 lb. Makes a big, big difference, and it's something most shooters can do themselves. Wolff Springs has the parts. It's hard to compare a BHP to a CZ, unless you're comparing the BHP to the CZ SA models. (I have a BHP, too, and it OK, but much lighter than 7 lb.) The triggers in most totally stock BHPs aren't all that great...

Q12: It looks like either the the B or SA can be had in 9mm NIB for ~$550. Sound about right?

Your mileage might vary. CZ are sometimes hard to find in local shops, and many folks buy them from the CZ Custom Shop or Cajun Gun Works, with some tuning already done. That seems like money well spent, to me.

Q13: How do the 75s handle .40 S&W? I'm guessing there's enough mass in that steel frame to tame the 40.

I've only had a couple of CZs in .40, but never really noticed a difference. Any difference in size or weight, isn't worth mentioning. (The .40 version is about 2 ounces heavier and maybe 1/10th of an inch wider, and a 1/4" higher than the 9mm version.)

I've had a lot of CZs over the years, and the only one I really regret selling was a CZ-40B....best shooting .40 I've ever had.

 

[JTQ]

SSN Vet wrote,
Q9: On a straight 75B, is there any type of firing pin block (thinking DA revolver here) that prevents you from accidently discharging the weapon while manually de-cocking the hammer?

The 75B has a firing pin block, but it isn't there to prevent you from accidentally discharging the weapon while de-cocking, any more than a firing pin block on a revolver. It's there so you can have the hammer down on a live round once you've decocked. You lose control of the hammer while decocking and the gun's going to fire, same as a revolver.

 

[SSN Vet]

I've since swapped out the main spring on my BHP and had a smith put in a tool steel sear with the TR grind, but I didn't think it was fair to compare a gun that was smithed with one that is stock.

I really like my BHP, but it still needs a lighter trigger pull. I'll have to give the sear spring a tweak next... and continue to exercise her.

Thanks again for the great replies... I carry a poly wonder 9, but really have no affection for it. It takes a voluptuous classic steel framed pistol (preferably blued with hardwood) with a ticklish trigger to make my heart go pitter-pat

The CZ 75 has been catching my eye and winking at me for some time now.

 

[I6turbo]

The 85 Combat doesn't have the firing pin block and does have a trigger over-travel adjustment. It's claimed to have the best trigger of the 75/85 guns, and the Combat trigger is often added as an upgrade to some of the other guns. My Combat trigger feels different from my 75B, but I wouldn't say the 75B is bad at all. I think the 75B cams back a little more, but I believe I can shoot it just as well. I have a Short Reset for the 85 Combat but haven't yet installed it. Combat also comes with adjustable sights.

 

[SSN Vet]

those grips are stunning... who makes them.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Q9: On a straight 75B, is there any type of firing pin block (thinking DA revolver here) that prevents you from accidently discharging the weapon while manually de-cocking the hammer?

The firing pin blocks on revolvers don't necessarily keep you from accidentally letting off around.... Most of them are pretty simply, and just keep the hammer from contacting the firing pin if they are struck from behind. If you're decocking, the same problems occur with a revolver as they do with a semi-auto.

With a semi-auto like the CZ, It's a question of timing, using the trigger to release the hammer, and then letting the trigger to go forward so that the firing pin block is engaged.

As noted, the firing pin block is not there to prevent you doing something you shouldn't. You're talking about a safety when you look for that sort of functionality, and I don't know of any gun with a safety that lets you pull the trigger -- needed to decock a non-decocker gun -- that would let the trigger or hammer move when the safety is engaged.

If it's really a concern for you -- and you choose to get a safety-equipped CZ model, just carry it like you would a BHP: cocked and locked. The standard CZ safety-equipped models do that just like a BHP. Or simply practice decocking.

 

[I6turbo]

those grips are stunning... who makes them.

Those are the part-checker Coco Bolo grips from CZ Custom Shop. There are others on the market, but the CZ Custom ones are thin and many people like them better for that reason. All of them that I've seen are nice wood, nicely finished, and look better than the webstore photos. http://czcustom.com/CZ_75-CZ_85-Thin-Coco-Bolo-Grips.aspx

They also offer full checker: http://czcustom.com/CZ_75-CZ_85-Full-Size-Thin-Coco-Bolo-Full-Checker.aspx

 

[DP03]

I know not everyone wants this feature, but because of a number of previous guns that had/have decockers, I chose the BD models of both my 97 and my 75 PCR. I like the way that the decocker holds the hammer at about 25%. Less reach and travel, but still a consious effort required for a DA pull.

That being said, I still think I like the tri-mode decocker (to include a safety setting) like my HK USP has. And of course, for some applications I like my guns that have no external safety at all.

As for CZ's line, this recent release has my attention in a big way....http://cz-usa.com/product/dan-wesson-715/. A video I watched shows a very simple barrel swap, and there are 3 lengths that they released with this gun. Furthermore, I think the video said this is also compatible with older Dan Wesson barrels.

 

[BlindJustice]

I haven't read the entire thread

I have a Standard CZ 75B.

It's the first DA/SA handgun in the 'Collection.'

* Chamber a Round

* Drop Hammer to the 'Safe' Position = Quarter Cocked"
and you're in DA mode for the first shot.

-OR- you leave it cocked and you can employ the frame
mounted safety for Condition One. But it's just a stub
and stiff in operation. ( Compared to 1911 thumb safetys)

Easy take down/reassembly, uber reliable and accurate

Lots of COmpact models - check the specs for frame material
etc.

Randall