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Cocked and Locked Becomes Unlocked

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Drakejake, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. Drakejake

    Drakejake Member

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    I have a Star PD compact .45 which I sometimes carry. It has a very light trigger and the traditional 1911 manual safety. Today I took the PD out of my waist-pack and was surprised to see that the safety was off. It was still cocked. Later I was trying it with several holsters and after withdrawing it from one of these discovered that the safety against had been again been turned off accidentally. This pistol has a half-cock position but no grip safety. How often have you noticed a safety on a single action pistol being shifted to off through contact with a holster or with clothing? Does this scare you?

    Thanks,

    Drakejake
     
  2. McNutt

    McNutt Member

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    It should scare you. You need to have a tighter fitting safety. I wouldn't carry with that gun again until that is fixed.
     
  3. Majic

    Majic Member

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    You should check the safety's plunger spring. It may be weak and allowing the safety to easily flip off. Also check the indenture behind the safety lever where the plunger contacts it and see that it hasn't beveled.
    These are relatively easy fixes on manual safeties if the parts are available. So no, it doesn't bother me.
     
  4. Grump

    Grump Member

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    You need a holster that doesn't rub the safety so hard, too. Mold a bit of relief space if it's leather, other measures may or may not work for plastics.
     
  5. The Tourist

    The Tourist member

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    I always fear the same thing.

    When Tussey builds my pistols around his reliability package, I always have him set/adjust the trigger to +5 pounds. His trigger are so smooth that no one can tell anyway, and it stops having the gun go off if lightly bumped. While he's at it, he stiffens the spring on the safety, but that's not the best part.

    He also machine a slight divot into the lever itself so the plunger spring insets into this divot.

    He even fpound a way to machine the lever on my .380 Colt Government that makes it very hard to knock off the safety.

    While any gunsmith could probably do the same modification, he's the only one I've seen who fitted a pistol for me in this fashion. If it does bother you, please contact him, he does great work, and he's a stitch to talk to!
     
  6. Majic

    Majic Member

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    Most safeties have that indenture Tourist. The gunsmith may deepen it, but it's already there for the plunger to sit in. Otherwise there's nothing for the plunger to actually stop the lever.
     
  7. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    I have two of those old PDs, and have never experienced anything like that. As others have advised though, I would NOT carry it until its been checked out.
     
  8. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    I found this used to happen with my BHP that had an ambidextrous safety. Eventually realized that it was happening when I was buttoning my holster shut. Duuuuuuhh! :rolleyes:
     
  9. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    I've read of several instances where someone's thumb safety had been flicked off somehow, and never did an ND (or AD for that matter) result.

    Go over to www.1911forum.com and do research if you like.

    It's definitely not unheard of, and has just about never resulted in the gun going off. (AD)

    Just think; people have been carrying this weapon for about 100 years. This has happened to lots of other people, and mostly without incident.

    I would definitely get it checked out, and personally, if I were carrying a SA Auto, I'd like it with a grip safety too, please. :)
     
  10. PATH

    PATH Member

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    That would scare me. I would have the gun looked at before I carried it again. Better safe than sorry.
     
  11. Hedger

    Hedger Member

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    I would dump the PD for CCW and get a Sig, Springfield XD shorty. 357 revolver or something that didn't require you to worry about whether you were going to be doing .45 surgery on yourself everytime you move. :neener:

    There is no reason to go cocked and locked for CCW with all the handgun choices out there today.
     
  12. The Tourist

    The Tourist member

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    Majic,

    Yes, however I was trying to convey the idea that good gunsmiths can make things 'harder,' or with stiffer spring tension, but still make that action smooth.

    Have you ever worked the action and racked the slide and felt something gritty? Then after a few rounds, a cleaning and proper lubrication, the same pistol feels easier to operate and yet, the original springs are installed. That's the feeling.

    I just like this guy's work. I've sent guns in, and minor scratches are polished off. He sees them, and takes care of them. When I have hex head grip screws ordered, they come polished to a high sheen. Magazines that don't rattle in the well, drop free and easily. These are the signs that this guy cares.

    My single stacker, vintage 1984, still runs tight and shoots into a poker chip.

    You are certainly correct about stock guns, but I wish you were here now so I could hand you these examples and let you actuallu activate the safety. Hard, and smooth.
     
  13. Drakejake

    Drakejake Member

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    I have checked out the safety on this PD and it seems to work OK. It doesn't seem to be worn or too weak. This pistol is in almost new condition. So I think these safeties can be accidentally turned on or off even though they are functioning as intended.

    Drakejake
     
  14. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    Go for a more modern design. DAO may be a great alternative. A smooth sided pistol with no levers to snag makes for a very safe carry weapon. DA/SA if you feel the need for a manual safety. A decocker doesn't make much sense, (to me) you may as well carry DAO and get a smoother profile.
     
  15. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Member

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    :rolleyes:

    No, it doesn't scare me, although I can't say the same for statements like the those above. If the gun is in a holster that covers the trigger, it is not going to go off if bumped, even if the safety is off. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't have the safety detent adjusted to make it more positive and or modify the holster in question. The PD, if functioning correctly and carried in a proper rig, is no more dangerous than any other conventional pistol or revolver. No sense eschewing a weapon that you are already familiar with for the illusion of enhanced safety. You are much more prone to have an ND while handling an unfamiliar weapon than to see a true AD occur while the pistol is holstered. I agree that if one is uncomfortable carrying a Star/1911 style C&L, they should chose another carry gun rather than carry one condition 2 or 3 (or 0 :uhoh: ) but never would I try to convince them that a DAO or DA/SA was somehow better or safer.
     
  16. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

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    Well said Cthulhu.
     
  17. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I caried cocked and locked for a long time, I only had one 1911 that ever had the safety wiped off inadvertantly and then only once.

    I agree that I would have minimal concern for the thumb safety as long as the trigger guard was covered by the holster but having the grip safety there would make me feel a touch safer.

    Either way, I'd have it looked at and addressed if you have a decent smith locally.
     
  18. Edward429451

    Edward429451 member

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    Yeah. I found my 1911 off safe for the third tome in 20 yrs recently. It didn't scare me par se but it always makes me sit up and take notice. I felt more relieved than apprehensive (felt like I dished Murphy in line.) I'm glad the grip safety and firing pin safety is there. I had to wonder how long it was off before I noticed it. After the first time it happened to me, I took to occassionally checking the condition of the safety by feel when I carry. The first time I caught it, it was at night as I was taking it off. The other two times I caught it by feel while out & about while it was still in the holster and concealed.

    Yeah, it's dangerous. It's a gun. Strict adhereance to the four rules has kept me safe. A good dose of love for my butt cheek makes me check it sometimes. Daily activity while carrying will make this happen. Best to be a step ahead of Mr Murphy and keep this in mind. There's nothing wrong with my gun. Sometimes walking will make the shoe laces come untied is all. Check then so you don't trip yourself.

    I don't buy into the theory of holster it and forget it. Even with a good holster and a conscious mind things happen, so don't forget that you have a gun pointed at you all day long!
     
  19. another okie

    another okie Member

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    Thus the importance of the thumb strap when carrying a cocked and locked. Also, some holsters are better at keeping the safety on than others. The Bianchi Black Widow will swipe off any safety larger than the one John Browning designed, while my Don Hume protects the thumb safety.
     
  20. Mr. Mysterious

    Mr. Mysterious Member

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    I would worry about the safety coming off more if you don't have a lot of practice unholstering. If you are unfamiliar to unholstering, add to the stress of a situation you may inadvertantly put your finger on the trigger and...well you can guess the rest.
     
  21. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    If you want a trigger pull that doesn't suck and is consistent, then yes, there is definitely a reason to carry a single-action automatic C&L.

    Like what? One that changes pull weight & length of pull from one shot to the next? Or one that consistently sucks for every shot? ;)
     
  22. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    This thread is a bright, shining example of why I love Glocks so much: No external, manual safety to worry about and fumble with.

    :D
     
  23. dairycreek

    dairycreek Member

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    Run, don't walk to a competent gunsmity!

    Dambetchalordalmighty yes!

    If there is no grip safety and the manual safety is not reliable for the purpose. Fix it NOW before something really, really bad happens. Like I said NOW!!!
     
  24. Avery Goodschott

    Avery Goodschott Member

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    I satisfied myself on this issue by additional range time to thoroughly test the grip safety.

    But I also bought a holster with a thumbbreak where the strap goes under the hammer.

    And I DO NOT use ambi-safeties (the outside safety is uncovered)

    Cocked and locked and strapped and covered
     
  25. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    I carry a c&l 1911 every day. The safety has never come off. And even if it did, I still need to depress the grip safety (like on the "more modern" XD) and pull the trigger (like on the "more modern" Glock). Cocked and locked isn't more dangerous than anything else, it is just perceived as more dangerous.
     
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