Cocked & Locked or Hammer Down, Safety Off

[weblance]

I just got a Sig P238, and have a question as to why Cocked & Locked is preferred to Hammer Down, Safety Off? I have never had a SAO pistol with an exposed hammer, and dont understand what the advantage is of the one method over the other. Thanks.

 

[jimbo555]

The act of lowering the hammer on a live round can cause an accidental discharge,and on the p238 the hammer is small and for me much slower to cock when needed than just flicking off the safety. Carry cocked and locked on an empty chamber for a while and you will see the safety will not move by itself.

 

[MedWheeler]

C&L is the way these pistols were designed from the get-go. That safety, when the pistol is carried in the manner in which it was designed (holster, or holster-similar setting), ain't going anywhere. It's been in use for over a century. Trust yourself first, then trust the gun.

 

[orionengnr]

The act of lowering the hammer on a live round can cause an accidental discharge

Actually, that would be (by definition) an ND (Negligent Discharge).
--An AD implies mechanical malfunction.
--An ND is operator error.

 

[Sam1911]

The very best advantage is that thumb-cocking the hammer is slow as molasses and easy to screw up under pressure.

C&L, the safety comes off as your thumb settles beside the slide as you're pressing the gun out. With a little practice, you won't even be cognizant of the act.

If you need a defensive weapon, "RIGHT FREEEEKING NOW" is the appropriate time for it to be ready to fire. "Just a minute while I thumb-cock this little thingy..." isn't nearly so good.

(FWIW, 1911-pattern guns were not truly "designed" to be carried C&L. Browning did not even include a thumb safety in the original version. It just works really really well and is the best way to carry.)

 

[weblance]

The very best advantage is that thumb-cocking the hammer is slow as molasses and easy to screw up under pressure.

I considered this when I was deciding if I wanted to post this question, or not. I could see this happening very easily under extreme stress.

 

[EdJennings]

Unless there is a firing pin safety, a blow to the hammer can fire the weapon if carried hammer down on a live round. Sorta like a Colt SAA. Cocked and locked, the gun is inert until the safety is swiped off.

 

[weblance]

The Sig has both, a hammer intercept safety notch, and a firing pin safety

 

[2wheels]

With a tiny hammer like that on the 238, it may not be all that easy to cock the gun under stress. I also feel that swiping off the safety on the draw is quicker, easier, and more natural than cocking the hammer.

 

[Skylerbone]

Which ever you choose, make sure the holster you choose is designed for the Condition you have opted for.

 

[2wheels]

Unless there is a firing pin safety, a blow to the hammer can fire the weapon if carried hammer down on a live round. Sorta like a Colt SAA. Cocked and locked, the gun is inert until the safety is swiped off.

Not on a 1911 or the P238. The firing pin can't touch the primer unless it gets a good whack from the hammer, which is impossible if the hammer is down.

Plus, as weblance noted the 238 has a firing pin block.

 

[Fiv3r]

I think Jimbo555 makes a good suggestion which I tried for myself after a made a holster for my 1911. I would just carry the pistol around cocked on an empty chamber and see how unlikely it is for the safety to be swept off without you meaning to do it. Get in and out of the car, fasten and unfasten your seat belt, get out and make a lot of exaggerated turns to see if your jacket hits the lever.

I have a 40lb 2 year old whom I have to switch arms frequently if I carry for any length of time. Even her long legs scraping against my jacket or shirt has never caused the safety to get brushed off.

C&L LOOKS scary, but it really is a super safe way to carry the pistol.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

On the P238 I would carry C/L but other than that, it depends on the gun. I carry my CZ75B hammer down.

Unless there is a firing pin safety, a blow to the hammer can fire the weapon if carried hammer down on a live round. Sorta like a Colt SAA. Cocked and locked, the gun is inert until the safety is swiped off.

Inertia firing pins like on a 1911 prevent such a thing from happening.

 

[Deer_Freak]

If your first experiences were with a SA revolver cocking the weapon would be instinctive. I carry a P95 and have no problem getting the gun cocked before I have it leveled. No, the P95 will not go off if your finger slips off the hammer.

The best way to really find out if you can cock is to shoot it in a IDPA event with the hammer down. It will take about 2 courses of fire to figure out which is best for you and you will get around 100 rounds of practice.
Talk to the SO or range officer before hand so they know what are your intentions. Once the match starts IDPA's way of saying no is to send you home and keep your money .

 

[powder]

There is no "advantage" except for the option which makes you the most comfortable for carry.

 

[Sam1911]

There is no "advantage" except for the option which makes you the most comfortable for carry.

Or that allows you to be reasonably comfortable and allows the gun to be brought into effect most reliably and quickly.

Indeed, please do try it out at an IDPA match. The timer certainly is the ultimate reliever of misconceptions.

 

[otasan56]

Leave it cocked and locked

That is the way that Sig designed it to work, so go for it. Train yourself to function safely with the C&L Sig.

 

[dgod]

I carry a Colt Agent 45ACP in a Cocked and Locked (Black Hawk and Freedom Arms Holsters), in both cases Cocked and Locked, been that way 15 years, never had a problem. They are naturally safe.


Colt Agent 45ACP Daily Carry, Guard Dogs
870 w/Laser and Light Home Defense, 00 Buck
M4 Colt BOB with 1K Rounds 55gr JHP (Parts for 2K More)
Backup: CZ75, Baretta 92FS 750 Rounds, AK47 750 Rounds, Browning BPS & A5 100 rounds, SS MP5-22, Ruger 10-22 9K Rounds.

 

[45crittergitter]

An uncocked SA pistol is not ready to save your life.

On a DA/SA pistol, I still prefer cocked and locked for these reasons:

1) I get the same trigger pull for all shots
2) I like the safety on as a bit of extra security if mishandled or grabbed (for DA AND SA)
3) Eliminates the act of lowering the hammer over a live round on guns without decockers

 

[Vern Humphrey]

One point to consider is holster design. I make my own, and always include a leather button or cam that engages the safety lock. I test my holsters by taking an unloaded gun, cocked and safety off, and shoving it into the holster. When I pull it out, the safety should be on -- cammed into position by the button.

 

[Kiln]

I'd go with cocked and locked. That is how I would carry my CZ75 or any 1911. I prefer a consistent trigger, that is the reason I'd do it on the CZ75. The reason I'd do it with a 1911 should be obvious.