Coffee cans in crime fighting. (Mpls)

[Otherguy Overby]

The city council and mayor of Minneapolis have a plan:

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S16972.html?cat=1

The Minneapolis City Council approved a new system that detects the sound of gunfire in the city, allowing police to respond more quickly to possible crimes.

The system detects the acoustic signature of gunshots and even the sound of a bullet as it travels through the air. It uses 8 to 20 sensors per square mile to pinpoint gunfire to within 75 feet.

"If response time is predictably swift, then criminals have a much less friendly environment to operate in, and that deters a lot of people,” says Minneapolis City Council Member Don Samuels, who represents the city’s North side.

Samuels voted for the Shot Spotter technology in the council's meeting Friday morning.

The system would cost about $325,000 to be installed.

Samuels says it is worth the price.

"We're talking about saving lives. So it almost goes without saying that it will be worth it."

Shot Spotter CEO James Beldock says the system is so accurate it has reduced crime in some cities by 33 percent.

"If more than one shot is fired from a vehicle, we can tell you the speed of the vehicle and what road it's on," Beldock says.

The system’s sensors are hidden in units the size of a coffee can, and criminals cannot detect them.

"They have no idea where the system is deployed,” says Beldock.
Mayor R.T. Rybak says he will sign the council’s approval.

Shot Spotter will first be deployed on the North Side and parts of the city’s South Side.

Police say the technology could be installed in other parts of the city if it proves to be successful.

This could lead one to speculate that a certain obnoxious poster from THR has moved to Minneapolis...

Finally, about the Minneapolis city council, please google:
Minneapolis "city council member" jail

 

[c_yeager]

I want to know how the city intends to place 8-20 coffee-can sized detectors per square mile in the city without anyone noticing where they are. I suspect that these babies are going to last a week before they start getting pulled down.

Oh wait, now I get it. You put up the "detectors" and when they start getting vandalized then you have a convenient excuse to put up cameras, just to protect the sensors mind you. 8-20 really good cameras per square mile is probably sufficient for full covereage of most of the streets in the city.

 

[CletusFudd]

"Oh wait, now I get it. You put up the "detectors" and when they start getting vandalized then you have a convenient excuse to put up cameras, just to protect the sensors mind you. 8-20 really good cameras per square mile is probably sufficient for full covereage of most of the streets in the city."

How long before they learn to spoof the detectors with firecrackers or some other means and watch with amusement as several cars are diverted from their regular duties to investigate?

 

[c_yeager]

How long before they learn to spoof the detectors with firecrackers or some other means and watch with amusement as several cars are diverted from their regular duties to investigate?

Simple solution make it so that the use and possession of fireworks is banned in Minneapolis and that the possession/use of such is punished in a way that is comparable to the discharge of a firearm in the city limits. I wouldnt be too suprised if this was already the case. The beauty of this is that, like most big liberal agendas, one can actually create more criminals in addition to catching existin ones.

 

[Sergeant Bob]

Shot Spotter CEO James Beldock says the system is so accurate it has reduced crime in some cities by 33 percent.

Wow, imagine that. The CEO of the company trying to sell the city this contraption saying it reduces crime.

"If more than one shot is fired from a vehicle, we can tell you the speed of the vehicle and what road it's on," Beldock says.

Hey,cool! They can give the criminals speeding tickets too!

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Sergeant Bob
Quote:
Shot Spotter CEO James Beldock says the system is so accurate it has reduced crime in some cities by 33 percent.
Wow, imagine that. The CEO of the company trying to sell the city this contraption saying it reduces crime.

Quote:
"If more than one shot is fired from a vehicle, we can tell you the speed of the vehicle and what road it's on," Beldock says.

Hey,cool! They can give the criminals speeding tickets too!
Yesterday 12:15 PM

Eggzactly, more add on charges to be plea bargained. Can you emagine what all those extra convictions will do for the careers of young politically motivated attorneys for the state/city. It's gotta be all win, right?

For the rest of us, some people could get great entertainment from spoofing this system.

Finally, it occurs to me relying on technology to put a bandaid on social problems is really wishful thinking for the socialists. Passing the blame/buck is no longer a valid solution. (NYC mayor bloomberg's recent ravings are a great example)

 

[fjolnirsson]

I predict a rise in random gunshots, used to draw attention away from crimes in other areas, as well as gunshots fired in order to lure police into an ambush.
What nonsense.

 

[jamz]

I don't think it's a terrible idea. It's not taking away from the lawful gun owner, it's not taking away from legitimate self defense, it's not taking anything away from sport shooters or hunters, none of which would go on out of doors within city limits, it's a method to target the bad guys upon their committing a crime.

If I'm involved in a SD shooting in the city and the city can tell what and where it happens and calls the police, then fine, I'd be calling them myself as soon as I could anyway.

It's a hell of a lot better than banning firearms within city limits, for instance.

Also, maybe they can be fooled, maybe it's not so easy. I doubt very much that fireworks or backfires would do it, I'm pretty sure they are very different accoustic signatures. They could, and will be mapped however, in time, given enough criminal initiative.

While I could also see using it as a tool to lure police into areas away from actual planned crime, I can't see it being more abused than a phone call would to do the same thing. What's the difference between going to 4th and Main and firing a few rounds into a wall and calling 911 from a pay phone and reporting shots fired at 4th and Main? Again I think this drawback is a wash.

 

[Shield529]

I wonder how much snake oil that huckster threw in for free? This has got to be the stupidest contraption to date.

 

[1 old 0311]

Well yes! Don't you think the "home boys" will now chill by 33% if they know they can be heard? Hell they don't care if they are seen.

Kevin

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Shield529:
I wonder how much snake oil that huckster threw in for free? This has got to be the stupidest contraption to date.

Thanks, there's also probably money under the table here somewhere.

Please people google up this for a view into the Minneapolis city council (cut and paste the whole line into google:

Minneapolis "city council member" jail

or

Minneapolis "school board" jail


Enjoy!

 

[zoom6zoom]

On the TV show NCIS, they used a system like this in the first season to triangulate where a sniper was shooting from. Of course, they knew where he was planning to strike so they only needed three devices. Don't know how well it would work in the real world. (The episode was "One Shot, One Kill", originally aired 2/10/04)

 

[leadcounsel]

What a stupid waste of taxpayer money.... spend spend spend our grandchildren into poverty....

I have a better idea. If the gunshot warrants a police visit in a urban area, I'm certain that someone will pick up the phone. A gunshot that can be heard by a sensor can also be heard by PEOPLE!

And aren't dispatchers overwhelmed with calls as it is? The last thing we need are false alarms every night all year. And I agree that it would be a great way to divert attention from a true crime.

This is a great ploy to "listen" to everything else that goes on too. Big Brother anyone?

 

[dch1978]

Been there, Done that.

Don't have a link but I believe it was somewhere towards the East. (Philly?)

Anyway, all the same conversations were had here and about 3 weeks later the police took them all down or just stopped reponding.

The system could make no difference between firecrackers, car backfire, falling bricks.....etc.

Central MN is pretty well a "liberal" area and they probably just took the word of the CEO.

It will go nowhere.

DCH

 

[1911Tuner]

Coffee Cans

When I was a kid, coffee cans made good 100-yard targets for our .22 rifles...

 

[Sven]

Oleg: MN sure is full of nanny-staters, ain't it

-feeling minnesota

 

[halvey]

My God what is the big deal? The system was about $300k, peanuts for a big city like Minneapolis. If it works, great. If not, so what? The liberals taxed the liberals to pay for this.

If I'm involved in a SD shooting and this system works, all the better.

Oleg: MN sure is full of nanny-staters, ain't it

Not really. Get out of the 494-694 loop (thats the main part of the metro area for you people who've never been here) and it gets pretty moderate to conservative in a hurry. You'd be amazed the outstate Democrats who are WAY more conservative then your east coast Republicans who are pretty much liberals anyway.

 

[lance22]

AWESOME! I'm all in favor of it. After the shooting takes place, they can find your body thanks to nifty triangulation. However, contrary to the wishes of the Murderapolis City Council, they just might find a dead car-jacker layin' there in his baggy pants n' dew rag. Who knows ... all that's important is that this new system will get them to the crime scene faster, start the paper work sooner, and move on to the next thing. Think efficiency.

 

[pcf]

I once read a story about a boy who cried wolf.......

After a couple of days it'll be used to corroborate reports/stories on where a shooting took place. I'm sure the city council won't learn what the police already know, people who shoot guns in public, usually don't wait around for the police.

A gunshot that can be heard by a sensor can also be heard by PEOPLE!

In a city/urban area you'd be lucky if you could find three people that could point to within 397 degrees of where a gunshot came from.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Don't most crimes involve no gunfire?

 

[Sam Adams]

I wonder if tape-recorded gunshots, turned up to sufficient volume, would spoof the system. These aren't even firecrackers, so I'd love to see them be outlawed.

If I were a gang member, I'd have lots of fun spoofing the system - all with an eye toward diverting the police to a very different area than where I'd be planning a big crime. Of course, I'm too moral and boring for that, but its fun to think about it.

 

[saddenedcitizen]

Another gee-whiz

toy for politicians to buy and LEOs to play with that accomplishes NOTHING.
'Hey, we now know that the shot was fired from right here'
So what !
This leads to arrest/conviction exactly how ??
Expect the shooter to hang around and see how long it taks 'authorities' to show up ? Not likely.
As was stated above, these people don't even care if they are seen, so now they're going to be concerned
about being HEARD ?
Somehow I doubt it.

 

[pete f]

The sensors hang from phone poles, and building tops...

In an urban setting, with echos, lots of surfaces for sounds to bounce around on, lots of traffic and other urban noise going on, it is very difficult to point in the direction of a gun shot.

The sound profile of a gunshot is very detectable by the sensors. Spoofing if very difficult. These are not designed to bring cops directly to the exact spot of the shooting, what they do, is speed up police responses. Like having smoke detectors in a building. Once tripped, they call the cops, now. Cops get a three or four block area to look for shooting victims or perps. Maybe the pull up on scene and BG sees cop car and panics and runs, or maybe Cops pull up on shooting area and lo and behold, they see X, Y, and Z. All previously involved in gang activity. Now, cops can claim probably cause to stop and chat with these fellows.

Minneapolis does not have the best record of dealing with crime, but outside of a small criminal element, most of the state is a pretty good place to live. The big time Democratic Liberal experiment is done here.

Almost 20 years since we had a Dem governor. Maybe more. The two bastions of Dem party were the twin cities and the Iron Range unions. They have both lost so much strength that soon we may be a full red state. The failure of the Democrats and the liberal experiment has crushed much of the support that they had. A lot of ex-hippies still live here, futilely believing that spending other peoples tax money on social welfare projects will route out poverty and crime. But lately far more people have started to say, the heck with it, no more money for people who don't contribute. Either you work or leave.

It ain't perfect here, but it really ain't bad either. Lots worse places to live, detroit, chicago, SF, LA, NYC, Boston, Philly, Seattle, all come to
mind,

 

[Sven]

I guess I'd forgotten the experiment was over, because whenever I read the Minneapolis Star Tribune back home, I just about puke. I won't even honor that newspaper by using it for toilet tissue.

 

[DRZinn]

maybe Cops pull up on shooting area and lo and behold, they see X, Y, and Z. All previously involved in gang activity. Now, cops can claim probably cause to stop and chat with these fellows.

Or maybe they roll up and think they have probable cause to "stop and chat" with anyone in that area....