Cold Blue
- Thread starter saemetric
- Start date
- Status
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
As far as it goes, I like Brownell's Oxpho-Blue.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1072&title=OXPHO-BLUE~
I also keep a Birchwood - Casey Presto touch-up pin handy for small jobs like sights and such.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24775&title=PRESTO~ GUN BLUE PEN
But keep in mind that no cold blue is anywhere near as good or durable as real hot bluing.
rcmodel
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1072&title=OXPHO-BLUE~
I also keep a Birchwood - Casey Presto touch-up pin handy for small jobs like sights and such.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24775&title=PRESTO~ GUN BLUE PEN
But keep in mind that no cold blue is anywhere near as good or durable as real hot bluing.
rcmodel
+1 on Oxpho-Blue.
If it is applied correctly, it can be darn near as durable as a good hot blue.
A bad hot blue won't last any longer than Oxpho-Blue and Oxpho-blue won't turn your parts purple if you corrupt the solution or heat the tank to the incorrect temperature.
If it is applied correctly, it can be darn near as durable as a good hot blue.
A bad hot blue won't last any longer than Oxpho-Blue and Oxpho-blue won't turn your parts purple if you corrupt the solution or heat the tank to the incorrect temperature.
frogomatic
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 522
+1 to bigAzAl
I wouldn't reccommend cold bluing for any application. They work on a copper sulfate solution(copper and sulfuric acid). The copper is deposited on bare metal and the acid prematurely ages the copper turning it black. The problem lies in acid, most of it can be neutralized, but there will always be some ammount trapped between the copper and steel, this will slowly eat the steel away, very slowly, but it still does so.
@ Onmilo: If parts turn purple, it's because of silicon content in the steel, this can counter-acted by increasing the heat and duration of the bluing process.
I wouldn't reccommend cold bluing for any application. They work on a copper sulfate solution(copper and sulfuric acid). The copper is deposited on bare metal and the acid prematurely ages the copper turning it black. The problem lies in acid, most of it can be neutralized, but there will always be some ammount trapped between the copper and steel, this will slowly eat the steel away, very slowly, but it still does so.
@ Onmilo: If parts turn purple, it's because of silicon content in the steel, this can counter-acted by increasing the heat and duration of the bluing process.
schmeky
Member
What Big Az Al said,
I tried different cold blues and the results were inconsistent, even though I tried being as consistent as possible each time I used cold blue.
Cold blue, based on my expereince, has virtually no corrosion protection either and wears off very easily. I did a home brewed hot blue last month and the results were stunning. It's not that difficult to do a quality hot blue at home.
Hot blue = yea
Cold blue = nay
I tried different cold blues and the results were inconsistent, even though I tried being as consistent as possible each time I used cold blue.
Cold blue, based on my expereince, has virtually no corrosion protection either and wears off very easily. I did a home brewed hot blue last month and the results were stunning. It's not that difficult to do a quality hot blue at home.
Hot blue = yea
Cold blue = nay
jimmyraythomason
Member
If you're not afraid of using a lot of "elbow grease",there is always the old "Belgium Rust" blue. Once a mainstay of old double barreled shotgun finishes, where hot blue cannot be used, it is almost unheard of today. If you take the time and have a lot of patients, you can achieve a beautiful and durable luster to any blueable gun steel. A rust cabinet is required but easily built. A quicker and less desirable product is G96's blueing paste. It gives a darker more consistant color but isn't as durable as Oxpho-blue.
GeorgeR
Member
Another alternative to jimmyraythomasons excellent suggestion is to prep the steel yourself, and send it prepared to just have it hot blued. I do it, Big AzAl does, and I'm sure a lot of other full timers do. It doesn't cost a lot, turnaround is quick and you'll have a real hot blue that will give you the protection and looks you want.
If you're going to spend all the time to prep the gun, why use cold blue? The reason I'm in business is because cold blues just don't work very well. If they did, I could get a real job
If you're going to spend all the time to prep the gun, why use cold blue? The reason I'm in business is because cold blues just don't work very well. If they did, I could get a real job
Wow...guys that do hot bluing for a living say you should never, ever, use cold blue. I'm shocked!
You'll get the best-looking and most durable results from hot bluing. Your neighborhood 'smith may charge a fairly steep price (or, if you live in CA, where thanks to environmental regs your neighborhood 'smith may not do it at all), so the most economical alternative is to prep the metal and ship it out to somebody who specializes in bluing.
But Brownell's Oxpho-Blue can do a pretty decent job, if you're willing to really work at it. The biggest secret is heat: use a hair dryer or heat gun to heat the part up until you can just barely stand to hold it, then start wiping on the blue. I like the creme instead of the liquid. You'll want to keep rubbing it into the part until the color is dark and uniform, let it stand for a while, and then wipe off the excess. f you get color that's too light or too uneven, strip it off with naval jelly and start over.
Prepping the surface beforehand with naval jelly and then Dawn dishwashing liquid will help you get a good color. Just dry the part very thoroughly and blue it immediately, because rust will start very quickly.
I did an old rifle this way, one part at a time. I had more time than cash back then, so cold-bluing was my only option. It's not gorgeous, but it's held up fairly well so far. An expert might notice some unevenness under close inspection, but nobody comes up to me at the range and says "Hey, did you cold-blue that rifle?"
As for corrosion resistance, I had a carbon-steel Wilson case gauge that kept rusting, even if a film of oil was kept on it. So I blued it with some leftover Oxpho-Blue a few years ago, and it hasn't rusted since.
You'll get the best-looking and most durable results from hot bluing. Your neighborhood 'smith may charge a fairly steep price (or, if you live in CA, where thanks to environmental regs your neighborhood 'smith may not do it at all), so the most economical alternative is to prep the metal and ship it out to somebody who specializes in bluing.
But Brownell's Oxpho-Blue can do a pretty decent job, if you're willing to really work at it. The biggest secret is heat: use a hair dryer or heat gun to heat the part up until you can just barely stand to hold it, then start wiping on the blue. I like the creme instead of the liquid. You'll want to keep rubbing it into the part until the color is dark and uniform, let it stand for a while, and then wipe off the excess. f you get color that's too light or too uneven, strip it off with naval jelly and start over.
Prepping the surface beforehand with naval jelly and then Dawn dishwashing liquid will help you get a good color. Just dry the part very thoroughly and blue it immediately, because rust will start very quickly.
I did an old rifle this way, one part at a time. I had more time than cash back then, so cold-bluing was my only option. It's not gorgeous, but it's held up fairly well so far. An expert might notice some unevenness under close inspection, but nobody comes up to me at the range and says "Hey, did you cold-blue that rifle?"
As for corrosion resistance, I had a carbon-steel Wilson case gauge that kept rusting, even if a film of oil was kept on it. So I blued it with some leftover Oxpho-Blue a few years ago, and it hasn't rusted since.
GeorgeR
Member
Hot vs Cold
Well OK, Ceemak, you got me My point was that hot blueing is such low tech, high dreck work, that if cold blues came even close no one would hot blue.
I've tried every cold blue in the world. I read the ads, buy it, try it, and throw it away. I spent $60 on Blue Wonder and then wondered why I wasted my money. However, some people are satisfied and pleased with cold blue, and that doesn't mean they're right or wrong. We all have different expectations from a refinish job and what some find horrible others think is just fine. There's room for everybody.
Well OK, Ceemak, you got me
My point was that hot blueing is such low tech, high dreck work, that if cold blues came even close no one would hot blue. I've tried every cold blue in the world. I read the ads, buy it, try it, and throw it away. I spent $60 on Blue Wonder and then wondered why I wasted my money. However, some people are satisfied and pleased with cold blue, and that doesn't mean they're right or wrong. We all have different expectations from a refinish job and what some find horrible others think is just fine. There's room for everybody.
Clark
Member
I have allot of different cold blues.
Oxpho is the most important.
Keep cleaning and heating between applications, keep the finger prints off, use lathe power if you can to rub it in, and put oil over the Oxpho and leave it over night. In the morning clean and oil again.
A few anti cold blue people refuse to believe it is cold blue when shown.
Oxpho is the most important.
Keep cleaning and heating between applications, keep the finger prints off, use lathe power if you can to rub it in, and put oil over the Oxpho and leave it over night. In the morning clean and oil again.
A few anti cold blue people refuse to believe it is cold blue when shown.
What is the "FRAM" comercial?
TO a reasonably trained eye,
the differrence between hot and cold blue, is.....
Like looking at two cars,
The first someone used spray paint
The second was done by a decent body shop
So just like a body shop using top line equipment and paint, will run circles around the best of the spray paints,
so to will
hot bluing run circles around cold blue!
With almost 40 years to back up my humble opinion
TO a reasonably trained eye,
the differrence between hot and cold blue, is.....
Like looking at two cars,
The first someone used spray paint
The second was done by a decent body shop
So just like a body shop using top line equipment and paint, will run circles around the best of the spray paints,
so to will
hot bluing run circles around cold blue!
With almost 40 years to back up my humble opinion
frogomatic
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 522
for the record, I don't do hot bluing for a living. My reasons for being against cold bluing have nothing to do with the quality of finish. It's difficult, but good LOOKING appearances can be achieved with cold blue, my reccomendation against cold blue comes from knowing how it works. Cold bluing is like gun-control, it's a band-aid/feel good measure, that does absolutely nothing to deal with the real issue, and in fact will on exacerbate the issue over the course of time. Looks good on the surface, but what's underneath is just eating away at the gun.
just FYI, older shotguns must be rust blued becuase the ribs are most often soft soldered on and the solder melts when hot blued. Saw another student do this at school to an old O/U. It was kind of funny when he had to explain what he did to Lindy. I seriously think I saw smoke coming out of Lindy's ears.
just FYI, older shotguns must be rust blued becuase the ribs are most often soft soldered on and the solder melts when hot blued. Saw another student do this at school to an old O/U. It was kind of funny when he had to explain what he did to Lindy. I seriously think I saw smoke coming out of Lindy's ears.
jimmyraythomason
Member
As with anything,the finished product depends mostly on the quality of the workman not on the product or procedure used. I have hot-blued many guns (still do)over the years and cold blued several others. I've used Birchwood Casey,G96,etc with very good results in the looks department. Some finishes were vitually identicle to the hotblue. Yes, without a doubt hotblue will stand up better to wear but if you do a good job of metal preparation and application,cold blue will look good and will last for years. A good coat of car wax on warmed metal will make the finish last longer too. That being said,when given a choice,I will choose hotblue everytime.
chris allen
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 198
Cold blue is like trying to pee on a forest fire---just don't work well.
Chris
Chris
jimmyraythomason
Member
Hmmm..Doesn't work well if improperly applied. What do you think manufacturers used before the advent of hotblue? Many had their own recipes but short of burning the metal in a fire it was applied cold.
frogomatic
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 522
prior to Salt bluing, Rust bluing was the most used method.
- Status
