Cold Steel Swords

[kannonfyre]

Ok this is basically a composite enquiry so please bear with me....

.....Any of you guys own Cold Steel swords? Are they tough enough for full speed re-anactment sparring? Sharp enough and with enough edge holding for cutting practice? In other words, do they measure up to their historical counterparts?

Next, is the quality and heat treat of their 1050 steel any good? Apart from weekly oiling and coating in grease is there anything recommended for rust inhibition treatment? (Would spraying on WD-40 and letting it dry help?)

Lastly, which of their models if any do you guys own? Any opinions about the scottish dirk, the naval dirk and the Moro Barong?

 

[Soap]

I've played with a few of them. They are fairly durable but they are completely overpriced for what you get IMO. As far as their shorter pieces go, I've never handled them but I would imagine that they are tough and suited to the task they were designed for.

 

[Jim March]

My opinion: THE steel for a low-cost yet seriously functional sword is 5160 (aka "automotive spring steel").



Jokes about "piece of Chevy" aside, they REALLY work. And there's seems to be something super-cool about Mercedes Benz and Volvo, as the HI Kamis seek out said brand names of crashed truck all over Northern India.

Both coil and leaf spring sources work.

They won't take much of a visible temper line though, the way the 1095/1050 series (sorta) can.

Think either Himalayan Imports or that Phillipine shop...wazzernames...dangit, I can't recall but they have a big selection of European patterns as well as Japanese and Southeast Asian/Pacific Islander.

 

[Ed Straker]

A friend just got a Japanese sword from Cold Steel, after about a three month wait, and he's extremely happy with it. I handled it once, seems to be pretty high quality, and darn sharp! Don't know if I'd spend 700 bucks for one, though.

 

[MrAcheson]

No sword is tough enough for full speed reinactment sparring for too long. You will damage the edge eventually. Cold Steel is very hit or miss. They are very good at putting a wicked edge on their blades. They are spotty in the fit/finish department and their swords tend to be heavy with mediocre balance. I think they contract a lot of their work out and thats the reason why some models are real hits while others are definite misses.

 

[Jim March]

Just remembered: http://www.kriscutlery.com/

 

[riverdog]

I recently came across Last Legend and since they advertise their swords for competition, they may be worth contacting. I do not own one but I'm considering the "Folded 4K Tsunami", 4096 Layer dual steel forged-folded blade. It would probably end up on a wall, so I'll prolly pass.

 

[Soap]

No sword is tough enough for full speed reinactment sparring for too long. You will damage the edge eventually.

In my experience, many reenactors block with the edge of their sword frequently. Tisk tisk!

 

[MrAcheson]

In my experience, many reenactors block with the edge of their sword frequently. Tisk tisk!

Ideally you parry with the flats or counter-cut to prevent edge damage, but sometimes you parry with the edge. Two edges smacking into each other will hit so hard on such a small area, that you can physically melt the steel at the impact point. Even with blunts it damages the swords. Its an accepted cost of the reinacting passtime and the swords are usually built a little tougher to take it.

 

[kannonfyre]

Yes, I know that steel on steel contact will nick the edge but how will the CS models fare against wood, leather and the flesh and bone of animal carcasses?

Anyone here done cutting tests with swords made from 1050 steel?

 

[MrAcheson]

They should do fairly well. They are quite good cutters on softer targets. Wood and harder targets will put wear and tear on the blades quickly. The real issue with Cold Steel is that you can't put all their swords in the same basket. Their katanas are quite nice and cut very well. Their hand and a half has a bad reputation though.

A better place to ask this would be www.swordforum.com since they actually do a lot of fun cutting.

 

[MrMurphy]

One of the gun magazines demolished some melons with Cold Steel swords and kukris last year. They held up okay.

For serious antipersonnel use, check out www.angelsword.com.....they are lethally sharp, perfectly balanced and are the sword equivalent of say a Wilson Combat or Les Baer 1911.

For live steel re-enactment, I'd recommend a Starfire (I own one) they have no edge from the factory since they are re-enactment blades (you can put an edge on it later if you don't bash steel on steel much) and are made of D2 tool steel I believe...they can take a pounding. Well balanced.

Here's a pic of mine with me in the proper attire.

 

[riverdog]

For full contact sparring, I'd recommend an Iaito This it what they're designed for and they're less dangerous than a fully sharpened "live" Katana.

 

[MrAcheson]

For "real" sword work I would recommend either Albion, Angus Trim, or Arms & Armor weapons. I own a Gus Trim long sword and its both beautiful and effective, all for less than the price of a handgun.

If you really want a nice piece and want to go custom John Lundermo at odinblades.com is a great guy.

 

[Soap]

Have you ever used an iaito? They are absolutely not designed for any sort of blade on blade contact. The blades are generally made of aluminum or zinc alloys. As such, they will be destroyed in any sort of contact with hard materials. The iaito is designed for solo drills in the art of drawing the sword, called "iaido". My Tozando iaito would never stand up to contact on a hard surface.

 

[riverdog]

From the link in my previous post:

And now, you can have an Iaito to match your cutting sword in every way. Weight, balance and appearance can all be identical to your Last Legend competition swords.

All Kaze Maru Iaito feature spring tempered steel blades made to match the characteristics of your Last Legend Competition sword, but with a 2 millimeter rounded edge. This means, if you have a Dragon Katana that you use for cutting, you can now have a safe training counterpart that matches your Last Legend competition sword for weight and balance, as well as looks. Why off set your training in the dojo with an Iaito that doesn't match the sword you use in competition? And why compromise the safety of your classmates by training with a "live" blade in the dojo.

As I read this, the Iaito sold by Last Legend feature spring tempered steel blades. They are not made of aluminum or zinc alloys.

The part about "compromise the safety of your classmates" seems to infer sparring.

 

[Jim March]

The part about "compromise the safety of your classmates" seems to infer sparring.

Not necessarily. Focus too hard on your drawing, without realizing who's walking up beside you from the rear, and things can get uuuugly in a hurry.

My opinion: unless you're taking armor VERY seriously, high speed sparring should be with Shinai (bamboo in multiple segments so they flex). Low-speed sparring is for Bokken (hardwood sword equivelent, considered an actual weapon in it's own right and in my opinion a severe improvement over the old stand-by baseball bat).

Steel sparring is for idiots or the VERY advanced.

 

[riverdog]

Jim,
You're probably right, however, the original question was,

.....Any of you guys own Cold Steel swords? Are they tough enough for full speed re-anactment sparring?

I would think that a steel Iaito would be better for full speed re-anactment sparring than would a live blade. Fortunately, I don't own one of these and wouldn't know how to use one. What competition are the "live" blades used for -- cutting competition? Why use a 2mm rounded edge to practice for cutting competition, seems counter-productive. Is sparring with live blades an Olympic event? Whoever gets cut first loses ... his arm.

BTW, I agree regarding use of a Bokken instead of a bat. Check White Heron Bokken .

 

[Jim March]

Right. Well...I dunno, I believe in weaponcraft safety.

Sparring with actual cutting weapons is insane, at any skill level. Genuine cutting weapons are for cutting inanimate objects OR for actual self defense...or handling/drawing practice with extreme care. (The latter is somewhat unsafe, but it DOES force a continuous consciousness of where the blade is in relationship to your body...see also the similar concept of running a "hot range" and why people serious about pistolcraft should have a loaded weapon handy at all times.) Anyways...SCA and others have a variety of competitions for cutting with "the real thing" - the "bottle chop" is among the more infamous (not to mention wet) - a free-hanging 2-liter soda bottle is filled with water and capped off, then hung by the cap. People are judged by the clean-ness of the draw, cut and then the actual results on the plastic bottle .

If somebody wants to spar with sharp implements, they're crazy and they're asking you to violate your moral commitment to not hurt somebody unless absolutely necessary.

Sparring with unsharpened steel blades is dangerous. One reason the movie biz uses lightweight aluminum or aluminum/zinc is safety...or they're doing a movie where something like fencing foils are proper (Zorro, etc). Yes, people with a LOT of skill do this at RenFaires and whatever, and they sometimes get hurt doing so. Bokkens are around 80% as dangerous. I spent time at a dojo where we used Bokkens all right, but at LOW speeds to learn patterns of movement with something at sword heft levels.

This stuff is as basic as gun safety and should be taken as seriously. As we may have kids running around here interested in swords, and that's fine, some basic safety notes should be considered. Swords have been geeking people for a LONG, long time and are not entirely obsolete as killing implements.

 

[Soap]

riverdog- My apologies. I didn't know that the Last Legend had a real steel blade. That is the first I have seen on the market. It is possible that the LL is okay for steel on steel contact, but I wouldn't try it until I asked them specifically. I have never in my experience in iaido and kenjutsu even seen an iaito used for blade-to-blade contact. As far as the "compromising safety" issue goes, LL is just offering their iaito as a safer alternative for drill practice. It is much safer to swing around a dulled blade than a sharpened one when there are a bunch of people in the dojo. Even the alloy iaitos have relatively sharp tips and there are a number of cases where people have been injured in practice with these. Also, the competition reference is most likely towards doing tameshigiri competitions, or the "art of cutting" competitions.

 

[riverdog]

Jim,
As I read your post I think that you find the premise of the initial thread question flawed -- I agree. The questions, " .....Any of you guys own Cold Steel swords? Are they tough enough for full speed re-anactment sparring?" presume that full speed re-anactment sparring with live Cold Steel blades is something one would do and the only issue is blade damage. Your point is that the wielders of the swords could be seriously damaged. Good point.

Daniel,
Cool. It is a relatively new product. Cutting competition ... as Jim pointed out drawing practice. Can't do that with a Bokken.

 

[armoredman]

Romans practiced with wood, as live steel would cause one to learn to pull a blow, however unconscously. A man who have been stung with wood had no such bad habits. Wood swords were also weighted about 1.5 times as much as the real thing.....
HAd a cheap spring steel short sword from Blade Runner a few years ago - sharp edge, very strong, about $110. Wish I'd never sold it.

 

[Skofnung]

You will get more sword for your money if you go with one of the following:

European Swords=

Albion
Del-Tin... These are probably more in your price range than the others
Angus Trimm

Asian Swords=

I hear the Paul Chen Practical Plus Katana is a good deal.

Ditto the Hanwei Practical Katana.

 

[bad_dad_brad]

After months of waiting due to the Kill Bill phenom Katana shortage, I finally received my Cold Steel Katana Warrior Series and I must say, I am impressed with this sword.

Quality workmanship. The blade is very very strong and sharp.

The sword is very pretty as well.

 

[bad_dad_brad]

"Next, is the quality and heat treat of their 1050 steel any good? Apart from weekly oiling and coating in grease is there anything recommended for rust inhibition treatment? (Would spraying on WD-40 and letting it dry help?)"

The blade is very good, but it is prone to rust as is all 1050 steel. I recommend CLP, a drop or two spread on the blade once every month or so. Your blade will never, and I mean NEVER tarnish with this treatment.