Colt 1861 Relic

[Zygodactyl]

I just acquired an original Colt 1861 Navy relic. It is just the barrel, cylinder, frame, loading lever and hammer. It will probably never be functional again. What I would like to do is just add a trigger guard and backstrap to use as a display with other civil war relics. My question is. Would an 1851 Navy replica trigger guard and back strap line up with the frame holes. Also does anyone know the thread size for the guard screws. The picture is the relic after soaking it with penetrating oil.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Do you have any specific reason to believe it is an authentic original Colt?
I don't have any originals to compare but it has been said by some that ASM (no longer manufactured) was the closest reproduction in dimensions to the originals.
Assuming your going to antique whatever you add so it at least sort of looks similar I'd think you could get an old ASM to match up good enough for your project even if it needs a bit of alteration.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

What a cool artifact. What's the provenance on that?

At this point, will the barrel and cylinder come off the frame?

 

[Zygodactyl]

Do you have any specific reason to believe it is an authentic original Colt?

I don't believe someone would go to the trouble of destroying a modern replica and then selling it for a fraction of what those parts would bring. It was found in the desert.

 

[Zygodactyl]

What a cool artifact. What's the provenance on that?

At this point, will the barrel and cylinder come off the frame?

The whole thing is frozen solid. The hammer moves. I was able to remove the screw for the loading lever but the plunger is frozen solid in the barrel. The cylinder is also frozen to the arbor.

 

[AlexanderA]

Assuming your going to antique whatever you add so it at least sort of looks similar I'd think you could get an old ASM to match up good enough for your project even if it needs a bit of alteration.

The trigger guard and backstrap would be brass, so they would have shown less corrosion than the iron parts. Therefore a bit of mismatch would be plausible.

The attaching screws would thread into the relic parts. The holes have to be drilled and threaded anyway, so you could use any modern screws (aged appropriately, of course).

 

[JN01]

It might be possible to restore it by electrolysis. There is a series of videos documenting the restoration of a fused 1911.

 

[JN01]

End result:

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

it has been said by some that ASM (no longer manufactured) was the closest reproduction in dimensions to the originals.

What he said!!!
EMF advertised their ASM parts to 1st Gen owners needing repair parts.
I do not know if original 1851 Navies and 1861 Navies used the same grip and trigger guard.
Someone on the Colt Forum would probably know or someone here who has a bigger collection of originals than I have might know.
I suggest watching Ebay for ASM 1861 parts (unless you find out that 1851's are the same.)
Or watch for a really beat up (as in cheap) CVA (ASM) brass frame 1861 on the gun auction sites and then "rescue" any parts that you need and sell the rest on Ebay to recoup the cost.
Good Luck!

 

[hawg]

The 51 and 61 used the same grip frame. I would soak it for about a month in Kroil. That should loosen everything up. Or you could do electrolysis on it but if you hook the battery charger up wrong it will dissolve it.

 

[Mizar]

Simple white vinegar is quite effective as rust remover - just soak it completely for about a day, maybe even longer, scrub with a steel brush and rinse it good with plenty of water.

 

[Big Bore 44]

A good long soak in Evapo-Rust will free it up, without removing good metal.

 

[hawg]

Simple white vinegar is quite effective as rust remover - just soak it completely for about a day, maybe even longer, scrub with a steel brush and rinse it good with plenty of water.

It might eat enough rust off but vinegar is acidic. Leave it too long and it will etch iron. Never ever use a wire brush. Not even on a badly rusted relic. FWIW worth it's worth something to relic collectors as is. Clean it any further and it wont be.

 

[Mizar]

Hawk, I would like for you to try to etch iron/steel with vinegar. Sure it can be done, but how long will it take - try it for yourself and post the results, OK? As for the wire brush - I wouldn't worry too much about it for such badly rusted piece, just use light strokes and don't get carried away, it's that simple.

 

[hawg]

Hawk, I would like for you to try to etch iron/steel with vinegar. Sure it can be done, but how long will it take - try it for yourself and post the results, OK? As for the wire brush - I wouldn't worry too much about it for such badly rusted piece, just use light strokes and don't get carried away, it's that simple.

I have done it. It only takes a day or so to permanently etch. Any wire brush strokes will show, even in such a badly rusted piece. Heaven forbid putting a wire wheel to one. Kroil or kerosene is a much better option even if it does take longer.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

ASM screws should fit, tried it recently on an antique that's in my shop now. The bolt and hand also interchange. The pistol owner wants to make it work so I am gonna try to order internals and screws from VTI and see what happens.

 

[Zygodactyl]

As suggested, I checked ebay and found a new old stock original colt back strap and trigger guard. It still had the Bannerman tag on it. It didn't specify what model, but it is brass so I'm hoping it is for a Navy. If not, I'm sure I can turn it over for what I paid. For those who aren't familiar, Bannerman was the premier surplus dealer in the early 20th century.
Vinegar will etch metal. We used to etch metal gutters prior to painting. The old timer I was working with called it pickling. Vinegar is dilute acetic acid, fairly mild as acids go but it is still an acid.

 

[Mizar]

Guys, didn't want to "dig in", because OP question was different, but do you really think that vinegar will make enough difference for the revolver in THAT condition?!? Sure it's acid and sure it etches steel, but do you know how much, how long does it take to see some etching? Have you tried it on a gun, have you removed rust, or blueing to know what exactly it will do? This is not some valuable collectible piece we are talking about, this is rusted junk. Plain and simple junk - it won't hurt it even a little bit.

 

[hawg]

Guys, didn't want to "dig in", because OP question was different, but do you really think that vinegar will make enough difference for the revolver in THAT condition?!? Sure it's acid and sure it etches steel, but do you know how much, how long does it take to see some etching? Have you tried it on a gun, have you removed rust, or blueing to know what exactly it will do? This is not some valuable collectible piece we are talking about, this is rusted junk. Plain and simple junk - it won't hurt it even a little bit.

Civil War relic collectors would disagree with it being junk. That would bring 200-300 bucks in it's present state to a CW collector. A whole lot less if it was cleaned off and next to nothing if it was etched or showed brush marks.

 

[Zygodactyl]

I got my original trigger guard today. Everything lines up. Now to find the screws. What is a source for the ASM screws? I will need the 3 for the trigger guard, 2 for the backstrap plus the butt screw. I guess I will need a mainspring screw so I can fabricate a spring to keep the hammer forward. If anybody knows the size of the screws that would be helpful.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Try VTI, they list the screws.

 

[Zygodactyl]

Well, I soaked it for a month in penetrating oil. Still frozen. I then used electrolysis for a week. It took off the red rust, but the black rust wasn't touched. I used a scotch bright pad to remove the loose black soot. The electrolysis brought up the serial number 11956, that makes the date of production to be 1863. I mounted the original grip frame and found a pair of old horn grips to see what it would look like.

 

[hawg]

Did you use a trickle charger or a phone charger? A trickle charger should have removed all the rust and made it operational again in much, much less time than a week.

 

[Zygodactyl]

I used an automobile battery charger. I had watched a couple of U tube videos and that is what they recommended. I would check on it and scrub the loose black oxidation off with a nylon bristle brush and wash it good before putting it back in the bucket. I even changed the solution once during the session. I was surprised that it didn't remove more. I had used this method years ago on motorcycle parts and it worked a lot better overnight. Perhaps I need to use a different sacrificial anode, I tried an old lawn mower blade and a piece of a bed frame. They both ended up covered in rust, so something was happening.

 

[Rex B]

I would certainly try it again with a new batch of evaporust, and possibly IN an ultrasonic cleaner.