Colt 1911 originated in 1890's?

[opr1945]

MUSKEGON, MI — A "collector's item" semi-automatic handgun stamped "property of the U.S. Army" was discovered in a Muskegon apartment by police officers there on a search warrant.

The unregistered silver M1911 Colt .45-caliber handgun was located in an apartment in the 1200 block of Ransom Street around 4 p.m. Tuesday by officers who were there on a search warrant. The suspect who lives there was allegedly involved in a larceny from a building, said Muskegon Police Detective Sgt. Jerry Ziegler.

“We're investigating the nature in which the suspect came into possession of the handgun,” Ziegler said.

The weapon is unregistered and its age is unknown, Ziegler said. Authorities have yet to determine whether the gun was stolen.

The older model Colt handgun is considered a collector's item, police said. Experts say it was originated in the 1890s and widely used in World War I, World War II and the Korean and Vietnam wars.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/12/police_investigating_collector.html

Was the 1911 originated in the 1890's?

I know I am a novice, but I thought a 1911 was originated in , oh I don't know....say 1911.

 

[bbuddtec]

#1 Journalists will lie about anything, with certainty, because they know everything...

This is how ppl think semi-auto is a machine gun, among a slew of other things...

Have a nice day!!

 

[Baba Louie]

Browning/Colts first patent date IIRC is 1897 for the semi auto handgun concept, coming to fruition with the Model 1900, which eventually evolved into the 1911. (need an image of the rollmarks on an original 1911 to see all the patent dates)

 

[Deus Machina]

The basis of them was designed in the 1890's, and probably every bit of the 1911, which was then refined and arranged into it.

But, just pointing out the obvious, if it's rollmarked 'property of US Army' and/or 'M1911', it very obviously originates from, I'm assuming here, 1911 or later.

 

[303tom]

They are (Idiots)............

 

[Hacker15E]

I love that the opening line of the article, the one that establishes the purpose of the article, notes that the pistol says "Property of..." on it. The implication is that it was stolen from the gov't.

The comments section solidifies this is what readers are taking away from the article:

I suspect it was stolen by the suspect but has never been reported as stolen because of it's "illegal ownership" status.

Journalism at its finest.

 

[sirgilligan]

A few years ago I visited the Browning Museum in Ogden Utah. I was surprised by how early John Moses Browning was making semi-auto firearms. A film there tells of how John Moses would shoot and feel the recoil and notice the brush around him move from the gases and say to himself this could be of use.

So, yes the origins are around 1896. But anything stamped 1911 obviously is after that date.

If you are ever in Ogden you should stop in and see the museum.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

Yeah if it's a 1911 then the "journalist" just didn't care to do her research. The idea that it must be stolen because it's marked "Property of the U.S. Army" only reinforces my point. I own two 1911's that are "Property of the U.S. Army", both bought at gun shops after I filled out Uncle Sam's paperwork.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Does Michigan require registration of handguns?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I'm surprised they didn't call it a Glock.

There is a story (apocryphal) about some guy who stuck up a bank with what turned out to be a Singer 1911. The gun was 10 or more times the value of his "haul" from the robbery.

 

[lathedog]

The article is pretty stupid overall, but it is fair to say that the 1911 "originated" from an earlier date.

American Rifleman just ran a pretty good article on this a few issues back. 1911 is the year of adoption of a pistol that was the result of continuous refinement of earlier designs. I think that is a fair use of the word "originated".

 

[Rail Driver]

Does Michigan require registration of handguns?

Yes. I didn't buy my first handgun until I moved out of MI

 

[Jim Watson]

Don't expect the news media to get guns or anything technical right. Or law enforcement agents or agencies, either.

For one thing a USGI 1911 is NOT stamped "property of the U.S. Army."
The actual roll mark is "United States Property."

And a "silver" M1911 has probably been plated or at least buffed bright and is no longer a "collector's item."

And the year of manufacture is readily determined from the serial number. Unless it was filed off when pilfered from the service.

And as lathedog says, the 1911 was the result of continuing development from what Mr Browning designed in 1897 and Colt brought out in 1900. A 1905 .45 is not just a 1911 made earlier. I think the key evolutionary step was the single link action that he went to in 1909.

 

[rcmodel]

This from todays paper about Federal Gun charges against a convicted felon who got caught doing a driveby.

18 rounds from a Remington 9 mm handgun

Now that right there is a truly rare handgun I betcha.

rc

 

[Pyzik]

Does Michigan require registration of handguns?

Yup, handguns only. It sucks and legislation is in the works to repeal it, though I HIGHLY doubt it will make it through.

Hopefully the 1911 does not get destroyed and goes up on the Michigan State Police auction site.

 

[Constrictor]

MUSKEGON, MI — A "collector's item" semi-automatic handgun stamped "property of the U.S. Army" was discovered in a Muskegon apartment by police officers there on a search warrant.

The unregistered silver M1911 Colt .45-caliber handgun was located in an apartment in the 1200 block of Ransom Street around 4 p.m. Tuesday by officers who were there on a search warrant. The suspect who lives there was allegedly involved in a larceny from a building, said Muskegon Police Detective Sgt. Jerry Ziegler.

“We're investigating the nature in which the suspect came into possession of the handgun,” Ziegler said.

The weapon is unregistered and its age is unknown, Ziegler said. Authorities have yet to determine whether the gun was stolen.

The older model Colt handgun is considered a collector's item, police said. Experts say it was originated in the 1890s and widely used in World War I, World War II and the Korean and Vietnam wars.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/12/police_investigating_collector.html

Was the 1911 originated in the 1890's?

I know I am a novice, but I thought a 1911 was originated in , oh I don't know....say 1911.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

The 1911 was in the late 1890's it was deemed 1911 when the military adopted the pistol.

 

[Jim K]

"The 1911 was in the late 1890's it was deemed 1911 when the military adopted the pistol."

Huh? As others said, the earliest Browning pistols dated back to the 1890's but that is like saying a 2012 Toyota Camry "was in" 1800 because that was when Cugnot ran his steam car. The "1911" did not exist in the 1890's, and none of the pistols that did were anything like the 1911.

Jim

 

[Constrictor]

Did you read the source I posted?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_M1900
The layout of the Browning automatic pistols was established by 1897 (production Colt Model 1900 not to be confused with FN Model 1900 also by Browning). But the prototype model for the 1906 army trials appears to be the first Browning .45 automatic. And that went through some refining on the way to becoming the M1911.

The British military mark was the broad arrow -> and when guns were released for resale on the civilian market a second broad arrow was marked -><- to form an asterisk indicating it was no longer military property. US property military surplus was simply sold on the surplus market with no special marking.

 

[Slamfire]

The Wiki quote is :

The M1911 pistol originated in the late 1890s, the result of a search for a suitable self-loading (or semi-automatic) handgun to replace the variety of revolvers then in service.[3]

I really don’t like the wiki wording. The 1911 originated from Paleolithic times when troglodytes were searching for better projectile weapons.

Or maybe it goes even further back, to Piltdown man.

Or what about the big bang?

The universe could have been created by the M1911.

Maybe a Journalist will put that in print.

 

[1911Tuner]

The 1911 as we know it evolved. Like most other modern designs, it came about as a culmination of other ideas...either someone else's or from the designer's own earlier efforts.

Like guitar players who "steal licks" from other players...gun designers very often "borrow" ideas from other designers.

Look at the Model 92/94 Winchester rifle for instance, and it's easy to trace its lineage back to Christian Sharps' falling block. The early lever guns' toggle link was adequate for the power levels that it was designed for...but far too weak for more powerful fare.

Sharps solved the breech strength problem, and Henry solved the capacity problem. The next step was to combine the two into a repeating rifle that would handle the pressures and recoil forces...and the sliding bolt/falling block M92/94 was the culmination.

Others are much easier to see. Compare the Ruger single-shot rifles to the Sharps design, and there is little basic difference. Would it be accurate to say that the Ruger Number 1 originated in the middle of the 19th century? I think so. At least, the groundwork started then.