Colt 45 Revolver - Info?

[heySkippy]

My dad recently gave me some of his old guns, among which is a 45 caliber single action Colt. I know it is old, but I don't know exactly how old. Dad says he bought it used in the early 1950's.

I've done some internet research, but would love it if someone has specific knowledge regarding the origins of this pistol. On the left side it has a pair of patent dates (1871 & 1872) and just to the right of that is stamped "U.S." The left side of the barrel has a "45" stamped on it. I don't see anything stamped on the right side of the gun.

The top of the barrel says "COLT'S PT. F A MFG Co HARTFORD CT USA." Underneath on the frame and trigger assembly are a 5 digit number (same) which I guess is the serial # (18### - just in case I shouldn't post the whole number).

I've fired this pistol several times, but it's been about 30 years since the last time. I've got about 40 rounds of ammo that dad says are appropriate for the pistol and a box of empty brass. Dad always said it required black powder rounds.

I would like to take it to the range and fire up the old ammo and then have all the brass reloaded. Is there any reason I shouldn't do that?

Thanks in advance for any advice or insight. To my untrained eye, the pistol appears to be in outstanding condition, but I'm no expert (hell, I'm just barely a poorly informed amateur). Here are a couple pictures.

 

[Jim Watson]

The illustrated revolver is listed at Proofhouse.com as having been made in 1875. The US stamp shows it was issued to the U.S. Army. It would have then had a 7 1/2 inch barrel.

In the 1890s, the .45s were well worn and were being replaced by double action .38 Colts. The Army rounded up all the single actions they could and sent them to Colt and Springfield Amory where they were refurbished. Actions were repaired and barrels shortened to 5 1/2 inches. Yours is unusual that it has two pieces with the same serial number, the parts were not intentionally matched up when reassembled and most of these guns have mixed numbers. The one on the frame in front of the trigger guard is what counts.

Beyond that, we are getting into serious expert stuff. I don't know what finish was used on the rebuilds. I can't tell from the pictures whether yours retains the case colors on the frame or if it has been reblued all over. They were inspected and should be marked RAC on the grip, but I have seen pictures of Artillerys that were not. Dollar value is large but variable depending on stuff like that.

The gun was made in the black powder era. People will tell you not to shoot smokeless in it. Some people will tell you not to shoot even black in a historical piece that old. The Army reduced the load because some of the early guns like that did not stand up to it. I don't know the nature of the ammo your Dad used and furnished to you but I'd be dang careful about what I shot in it.

Maybe a real expert will be along shortly with better information.

 

[BADSBSNF81]

Jim Watson has given you a good bit of information. You could also post over on coltforum.com and might get some more info. If you have described all visible markings, it is possible that the RAC was polished out during refinish. A few more photo closeups, of the bbl, both sides of frame would help. Have you checked under the grips for any markings? IMHO it would be worth the cost ($150 according to website)

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/historical.asp

I would recommend you have it checked over thoroughly by a competent gunsmith before firing again.

Check out http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/restoration.htm. He does great restoration work.

Regardless, it's a nice old SAA

 

[heySkippy]

Thanks for the info so far. The more I google, the more I find about this old piece.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/historical.asp

So this is "the letter" that I see referred to in other discussions of old Colt firearms? I see that Colt will give information over the phone for 1st & 2nd generation SAA so I'll give them a call this afternoon and see what they say.

I would recommend you have it checked over thoroughly by a competent gunsmith before firing again.

Check out http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/restoration.htm. He does great restoration work.

Am I reading that wrong or is he saying he charges ~$3000 to restore a pistol?

I've located a gun shop here in town that has a firing range. I believe I'll check them out too. Dad also gave me his old 38 Special S&W service revolver that he carried when he was a uniformed policeman and along with it came several hundred rounds of ammo. I'll take it and the 45 to be inspected and if they're in good shape, I'm looking forward to a fun day shooting at targets.

 

[BADSBSNF81]

You read it correct.

 

[heySkippy]

^^ Hmmm, well I guess that's the gun world equivalent of a frame-off restoration of a classic car.

I'll spring for the letter from Colt and then have it appraised. I see prices for this pistol ranging from $2K to 10 times that. I don't have any interest in selling, but I suppose I should document its worth for insurance and inheritance purposes. Oh who am I kidding? I wanna know.

 

[SigfanUSAF]

Quote:
I would recommend you have it checked over thoroughly by a competent gunsmith before firing again.

Check out http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/restoration.htm. He does great restoration work.

Am I reading that wrong or is he saying he charges ~$3000 to restore a pistol?

Try www.oldwestgunsmith.com

 

[dfariswheel]

Just in case you didn't catch it, DON'T SHOOT THIS GUN WITH MODERN AMMO.

These Colt's were built for black powder ONLY, and they should NOT be fired with ANY modern ammunition.
Smokeless powder has an entirely different pressure curve that black powder firearms were NOT made to handle.

This is a potentially VERY valuable pistol and you shouldn't risk blowing it up, not to mention what a blow up can do to your health.

Don't "Clean it up" don't shoot it, don't play with it.
Leave it ALONE until you can have a professional firearms appraiser take a look at it.
Some of these Army conversions are worth in excess of $10,000.

 

[heySkippy]

In the "Small World" department, I was IM'ing with a local friend last night and showed him my pictures. He messaged back that his dad had left him a similar pistol. He knows nothing about it, never fired it, etc. So, it looks like we have a similar mission now.

This is Max's gun - his serial is in the 25xxx range. What kind of metal finish is on this pistol?

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like it has been buffed, blued, and some parts gold plated. Years ago there was a shop in my home town that specialized in work like that. They were just prettying up second hand guns and did not realize that they were reducing the value for later collectors and speculators. But it is much more molested than yours and would be a bigger job to restore.

SN 25,000 goes back to 1876. Were they making 4 3/4" barrels then? I don't know, it might have been cut down.

 

[heySkippy]

Jim, thanks again for the insight. It's nice of you and the others to help out when a non-gun person comes in asking all kinds of questions.

I'm pretty sure Max is of the same mindset as me. The guns are family heirlooms that we intend to keep, so our interest in their value is primarily curiosity.

I called Colt this AM with credit card in hand to get info and order the letter and got a nice recording saying their customer service reps only answer between 10-12 and 1-5, so I'll be calling back later. I also tried to contact the recommended gun shop here but they haven't answered their phone yet. Grrrr, I want some instant gratification!

 

[SigfanUSAF]

Wait till they tell you how much the letter is

Grrrr, I want some instant gratification

 

[Jim Watson]

Skip,

Your gun really looks pretty good for its age and history. If you sank a lot of money into a professional restoration, it would look more like it did when it was refurbished and reissued for the Spanish American War or the Philippine Insurrection. But it would look LESS like the gun your Dad bought. I would be inclined to leave it alone for the family connection.

Max's is kind of a mess and deserves better, but again, he might be happier to leave it like he remembers it.

 

[Jim K]

Worse, depending in part on what it looked like before the "beautification" job, the value on Max's old Colt may have been reduced from thousands of dollars to a few hundred, and the owner paid good money for the work. The best thing to do with antique guns is to leave them alone. Turnbull and others do a good restoration job, but it is one any serious collector can spot twenty yards away on a dark day. If there is doubt and the value is high enough, a careful comparative examination, careful measurements and X-rays will expose the "restoration."

Take a look at the article by Arthur Tobias in this month's Man at Arms on Colt cylinder scenes. The story involves fakery, but much the same kind of close examination applies to restorations.

Jim