Colt Army Special - 32-20 strange markings?

[qwestr1]

Hi there!
I recently bought a Colt Army Special in 32-20 and was surprised to see that intertwined with the Colt pony on the left side of the frame is a "corral", or something like it, that looks like a stylized "C". If you can imagine a Chicago Bears pointed C, but fancier, the top of the C goes behind the pony's neck, while the bottom of the C passes over its rump.
The marking was clearly made at the same time as the pony itself, as the lines are the same thickness and depth.
I cannot find ANY info about this, and the collectors I've asked about it are stumped as well.
Please help.
Thanks!

 

[kanook]

sometimes pictures do better than words

 

[rcmodel]

Not strange at all.
Sounds like a common variation of the Colt pony logo used at the time.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=24480

They have used just the pony, the pony in a complete circle, and the pony in the stylized C at one time or another.

I don't know the exact data ranges, but Old Fuff will probably be along and can tell you more.

rc

 

[JohnBT]

I got sidetracked when I went looking for a pic. Here it is anyway from Post #21, with the date 1912



From this thread where they begin discussing the "Position of Rampant Colt Trademark on "D" Frame Revolvers":

www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13905&highlight=rampant&page=3

 

[Jim K]

I can't imagine any Colt collector being "stumped" by a common, though short-lived, variation of the Colt trademark. It was used from about 1909 to about 1913. If you provide the serial number of the gun, we can tell you when it was made.

Jim

 

[qwestr1]

Jim,
To be fair to the collectors I asked, they weren't Colt collectors. One was an ammunition collector, one collects 9mmP handguns, another collects S&W revolvers, and two others are Gun Shop owners, not exactly collectors. I don't collect Colts myself - mostly 9mmP handguns, with a focus on Aluminum frames.

Would it be a real shame to rechamber this old girl, replacing the barrel with a like new .38 Special barrel from a younger gun, then having the original 32-20 cylinder rechambered to 9mmP?

I figure I could also put a .357 cylinder in it and swap between them, as long as I don't use really hot loads of .357 Mangleum.

The revolver itself has the finish mottled and faded, but mostly intact (I would post pictures, but I'm not quite sure how). I would not expect to refinish it unless I shortened the barrel to less than the 5" it is now.

Thoughts, Gentlemen?

 

[Jim K]

The change to .38 Special is feasible but expensive, IF you could find the barrel and cylinder, and replacing them is not (IMHO) a DIY job, requiring special tools and knowhow. The 9mm brings other factors into play, like using moon clips and also possible inaccuracy due to the larger bore diameter. I would NOT put a .357 cylinder in; if you keep loads low, there is no point in having the .357 chamber and there would always be the possibility that you or someone else might throw in some hot loads and damage the old gun.

My recommendation is to leave it in .32-20 and buy loading dies for that caliber. It is easy to reload and fun to shoot, accurate and flat shooting, but with low recoil.

Jim

 

[Gordon]

Amen to that ! 1912 heat treatment was iffy at best! As was the metalurgy, throw in the deterioration of time and the almost total lack of Colt qualified gun smiths and it begs the question- why?

 

[Old Fuff]

Would it be a real shame to rechamber this old girl, replacing the barrel with a like new .38 Special barrel from a younger gun, then having the original 32-20 cylinder rechambered to 9mmP?

I figure I could also put a .357 cylinder in it and swap between them, as long as I don't use really hot loads of .357 Mangleum.

The revolver itself has the finish mottled and faded, but mostly intact (I would post pictures, but I'm not quite sure how). I would not expect to refinish it unless I shortened the barrel to less than the 5" it is now.

I would do none of the above!!


If you want a .357 Magnum, buy one - but under no circumstances try to convert an older revolver. There isn't any .357 ammunition that would be safe. You could also say the same about some 9mm military surplus that's floating around. You'll run into issues trying to remount the front sight if you shorten the barrel. If you don't want to use it for what it is - a .32 WCF - then sell it and use the money (plus that which any conversion costs would entail) to buy whatever you like. :banghead:

Forgot to mention: The Colt trademark is correct for the time period the revolver was made.

 

[qwestr1]

Guys,
Thanks for your input. I had "guestimated" that it would cost the following to do the conversion: $320 for the gun (already bought and sitting in my safe), $45 for the .38 barrel (also already bought and sitting on the bench) $160 for the 9mmP cylinder conversion from a specialist gunsmith here in Georgia, plus another $65 to have my local gunsmith swap the barrels.
I had not expected to use moon clips, but rather planned to seat the rounds and headspace them using the case mouth. I have a Ruger Speed Six in 9mmP as well as a Taurus 905 in 9mmP, both of which can be used without moon clips.
In any case, that's almost $600 (I didn't mention the fitting of the .357 cylinder and crane that I also already bought for $75) to change the caliber of a gun that could very easily then become an expensive paperweight if it goes KABOOM.
If I went for the .357 as well, we're looking at $800. Ouch. At that price I could just buy another S&W 547 (I have one of those too).


As for reloading the old 32-20 cartridge, I'm not a reloader. I recognize that reloading is something of an art form, and certainly a skill that should be taught 1 on 1, not learned from a book (at least for me). Also, and perhaps more importantly, my Wife would kill me if I started having large quantities of Gunpowder around. I understand the safety measures involved, but it would really freak her out.

 

[Old Fuff]

Other issues not withstanding, the 9mm x 19 Para. cartridge is rimless, and while you might headspace it in the chamber with a shoulder at the front of the case, the revolver's extractor wouldn't pull it out.

In the first decade of the 20th century Colt didn't heat treat cylinders. Didn't heat treat frames either. Some .32-20 ammunition (originally designed for Winchester lever-action carbines and rifles) was loaded on the high side - with a warning it was not to be used in revolvers. Even so, these were loaded below what some 9mm cartridges are, and way below what the .357 Magnum would be when it was introduced in 1935.

Use your head!!! That revolver is going on 97 or 98 years old...

 

[rcmodel]

Good grief man!
Listen to what Old Fuff is saying.

Please do not distroy another fine old Colt 32-20 revolver.
They are getting few & far between already!

:banghead:

rc

 

[farscott]

Please do not destroy that old Colt. It was made in a time when Colt revolvers were made with great attention to detail.

Since you do not reload, it is likely you will not shoot the revolver much as .32-20 factory ammo prices will give you a heart attack or send you into bankruptcy.

I am sure you can sell it on this forum or trade it for something that you can hot rod without any issues.

 

[whitebb]

That sounds like the one from GON Forum. Listen to everyone, don't molest it! It looked like a nice peice from the pictures. I would have looked at it but have no interest in another caliber.

 

[Andrewski]

"I can't imagine any Colt collector being "stumped" by a common, though short-lived, variation of the Colt trademark."

Imagine, if you will, a collector who is starting out. Does that help?

 

[Old Fuff]

Imagine, if you will, a collector who is starting out. Does that help?

A very good point. Thank you for bringing it up...

 

[MMCSRET]

Its all very interesting and informative and thanks to all. I have a Bisley from 1912 that does not have the same marks, just the "Rampant Colt", I have a Police Positive from 1911 that does not have the distinctive mark. My late model New Army is from 1907 in 32-20 and it doesn't have the mark. All my others are from the 20's and newer. Was the "mark" only used on certain models, IE, Army Special?

 

[BullfrogKen]

Man, it would almost be a crime to rechamber that old Colt.


I reload 32-20; I use it in a single shot Contender rifle for groundhogs. It you decide you don't want a 32-20 revolver anymore, I'd be very interested in that gun.


I love Colt revolvers, and I'd enjoy having a 32-20 revolver along with me while out hunting.

 

[Old Fuff]

Was the "mark" only used on certain models, IE, Army Special?

It was used on a number of other models during the pre-World War One era and maybe a bit after. You will find it molded into the hard-rubber stocks of some 1903/08 Pocket Model Pistols, and 1908 Vest Pocket automatics. I have also noticed it on Police Positive revolvers. It is known to have been stamped on some New Service guns. So far as I know it was never used on any of the military-sized Colt/Browning pistols, including the model 1911, nor was it used on any of the single action revolvers.