colt c&b

[sonnymiami]

i `m probaby doing this in the wrong place, tell me if i am. i have several cap and ball replicas late 80`s early 90`s uberti`s 51 navy square back and 60 army never fired and remington new army and my very first gun a navy arms 51 navy purchased in 1981, never fired.
but last weekend at a local gun show purchased my first "genuine colts". two second generation revolvers, a 1851 navy square back and 1861 navy. both have original boxes and all paper work, never fired and still have the plastic ties on the hammers as came from the factory. the 51 was made in 1973. not sure yet about the 61. i`m happy about that and just wanted to bragg. it`s not easy trying to live the hoop-la for that after the fact that colt stopped bp production 8 years ago. maybe there will be a fourth generation. ha !
but for several years prior to now paid no attn. to guns. alot has changed since i did. like what happened to the huge selection of c&b replicas that used to be available from so many places like navy arms, cva and dixie gun works ? did black powder interest die ? it seems you can only get them now from uberti, and even they don`t have a huge selection. can anyone, will anyone fill me in ?

 

[Jaymo]

Pedersoli and Pietta also make cap and ball revolvers. Cabelas sells Pietta and Uberti revolvers, as does DGW.
Pedersoli makes a Howdah pistol in 20 gauge. It looks just like a sawed off double barrel shotgun. It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on. It hits good and hard, too.

 

[arcticap]

Cabela's is selling thousands of C&B revolvers. There's no shortage of new revolver shooters & collectors.
You came to the right place to brag about your new Colts.
How about some photos?
Now that you have these collectible Colts that you don't want to be turned, does that make you want to play with your other C&B's that much more?
Do you think that you might want to fire them sometime or are they just for collecting?
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Foto Joe]

This is why I've been hesitant to by original Colts. I just couldn't resist the urge to shoot them.

 

[sonnymiami]

http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r180/sonnymiami/colts/

these are some pictures, they are for collecting. i have no plans to shoot them.

 

[SC_Slowhand]

Original Colts





Here some Originals. UPS is delivering this coming.week. With the price of some replicas or commemorative issues getting so ridiculous I decided to just go for it. The 1849 Pocket Pistol is going to be a Safe Queen. But the 1860 is getting a range trip.

 

[sonnymiami]

thank`s jaymo, i did check out the page for the howdah, it look`s effective, but not really my style. i like the revolvers best. i read up on pietta and it seems like some people have problems with them after a little shooting.
i don`t know personally, i don`t own any of those.

 

[sonnymiami]

arcticap i have no doubt they`re still selling them but there`s not the selection there used to be and "navy arms" a big distributer does`nt even offer them anymore. or CVA.

 

[sonnymiami]

foto joe, i never planned on shooting them so i`m safe from the urge.

 

[sonnymiami]

SC slowhand, those look like great first generation pieces, are you sure it`s safe to shoot the `51 navy. wouldn`t you be concerned about the cylinder strength ?

 

[arcticap]

Yes, Navy Arms and CVA no longer sell them. And some of the makers that have gone out of business are Armi San Marco, Palmetto,the Spanish maker Santa Barbara and Ruger recently discontinued their Old Army.
But there are other large outfits that sell them for Uberti, Pietta and Euroarms which produce many. Plus there are all of the earlier reproductions that are mostly in private hands that get traded and sold.
The folks on this forum often help people find where they're sold, and other outfits have now taken over where Navy Arms and CVA left off.
Thanks for sharing the photos.

 

[Old Fuff]

SC_Slowhand

The second pictured revolver appears to be a Colt 1860 Army frame, backstrap, stocks and triggerguard, set up with an 1851 Navy cylinder and barrel. It's unlikely that Colt made it that way, but if they did and you can prove it you have an especially unique and exceptionally valuable piece.

The Colt 1860 Army came with a rebated cylinder and a round barrel (8" long) with a creeping style bullet rammer. The caliber was .44, not .36. Colt didn't make an 1860 Navy, but they did produce an 1862 Navy (.36 caliber, round barrel).

 

[Jaymo]

I like my revolvers a LOT. However, NOTHING can compare to shooting the 20 gauge Howdah. It's a blast. It's got a healthy kick, but not too much kick. 350 grain .61 caliber round ball packs quite a punch. If you shoot the Howdah, you won't want to put it down. You won't want to give up your revolvers, but you won't want to give up the Howdah, either.
The price is a little steep, but it's really nice and hits the target with plenty of punch.

 

[sonnymiami]

Yes, Navy Arms and CVA no longer sell them. And some of the makers that have gone out of business are Armi San Marco, Palmetto,the Spanish maker Santa Barbara and Ruger recently discontinued their Old Army.
But there are other large outfits that sell them for Uberti, Pietta and Euroarms which produce many. Plus there are all of the earlier reproductions that are mostly in private hands that get traded and sold.
The folks on this forum often help people locate where they to buy them, and other outfits have now taken over where Navy Arms and CVA left off.
Thanks for sharing the photos.

arcticap, what i mean though is also the large diverse selection that was available, all the confederate revolvers, leech and rigdon, dance bros. , lematt, to name a few. and union revolvers. also i checked with uberti and the paterson colt is no longer produced.
and the long line of rifled muskets and carbines i haven`t seen yet anywhere.
one good thing is uberti is making the cartridge conversions and open tops. it just seems thing`s changed alot.
one question, is there any talk going on about a 4th generation colt line of c&b revolvers ?

 

[Old Fuff]

One thing that everyone should be aware of is that the Federal Reserve is planning to put more money into circulation to hopefully spur our economy. Should they go through with this plan – which is likely – the U.S. dollar will become worth less in terms of its value against other currencies. The idea is to make U.S. exports less expensive, but the flip side of the coin is that many imports, including European firearms or all kinds will be more expensive. At or about the first to middle of January, 2011 expect to see higher prices on foreign-made cap & ball revolvers. The best time to buy may be now.

 

[sonnymiami]

i hadn`t thought of that, your probably right. but i`m not in a position to buy anymore right now anyway. in my current state of finances it would be better to conserve.
uhoh ! is right.

 

[SC_Slowhand]

Colt 1860 Army/Navy



Very Good Point there Old Fluff. She is a Frankenstein Colt. Above of course is an Original 1860 Colt Army, .44 Cal. in comparison.

There was of course no Colt Navy Model in 1860. Some gunsmith took an original 4 screw Colt Model 1860 Army frame and using what is described as "good reproduction parts with Colt markings (?) for the balance." He did a nice age job to make it look like an real aged finish. The Dealer I got her from has no idea when it was done. He was though up front about it all. She has the Original number on the frame and trigger guard. The origin of the .36 Barrel and Cylinder are unknown. I shall have to disassemble her and she what the parts on the inside look like.


I don't have her in house yet to check the barrel number. I think she's an interesting beast, that someone spent some time creating. Goes to show you what some people are capable of creating out there. What's she worth? About $550.00 and some change. Still a great addition to my collection. You won't be seeing her on Gun Broker anytime soon but.. I'd wager a few members of her family have been sold as "original".

The Colt Model 1849 5" Pocket Revolver is the real thing (I hope) made around 1860. One just never knows, for sure.

 

[sonnymiami]

in the book the "colt heritige" i believe it does say there were some `51 navies that could be fitted with a shoulder stock. and the `51 was manufactured beyond 1860.

 

[Old Fuff]

SC_Slowhand:

In this instance you know what you have, the seller was “up front,” and I presume that you paid a price that was appropriate for what you got.

However creating “unique” antiques and selling them as original is a federal crime, and the FBI has a special unit to deal with such matters when fraud is involved.

As an example, I know of a case where a less-then- knowledgeable individual was sold a Remington .44 New Army in perfect condition that was in reality an Italian replica fitted up with an original Remington barrel.

Anyway, when you examine your 1860 Army/Navy revolver look down the bore. Colt’s 19th century barrels had gain twist bores. In other words the rifling starts out straight at the back, and then twists as it goes toward the muzzle. Replicas have regular front-to-back twist rifling.

I haven’t examined the piece, but I suspect that it may have an original but renumbered barrel, with a replica bullet rammer assembly. Otherwise the whole barrel assembly is made up of replica parts. The cylinder may, or may not be one made by Colt. The finishes on both the barrel and rammer assembly don’t exactly match the rest of the revolver.

Should you resell the piece, be sure that both you and the buyer have a bill-of-sale that includes a full and complete description of what it is. Otherwise at some future time you could find yourself in serious trouble.

 

[SC_Slowhand]

Works for me. I'm well aware of what she isn't and have documentation. What she is though is a fake that someone made up, for whatever reason. I'll check out the grooves when I get her.

 

[Hellgate]

Another way of checking for originality is to pull a few screws and see if they are metric threads.

 

[SC_Slowhand]

Screws

True enough... except Colts were made both here in America and other parts of the world. Unless... I had some sort of documentation claiming that it was made here in the US and found some metric screws that would hold some meaning. Good point. I'm going to call the dealer I bought it from this week and see if I can get some further information on it.

I don't lately plan on selling the thing. I bought it as a curio type purchase and plan on doing some research on it. If I were making a de fab "original" from an Italian job, I certainly wouldn't slap a .36 Cal cylinder and barrel on it. If it checks out sound, I'm going to put a few rounds through her just for the heck of it.

 

[sonnymiami]

that`s true, for a time in the 19th century colts did have a factory in london, at least.
according to R.L. Wilsons book.

 

[SC_Slowhand]

R. L. Wilson

I've read R. L. Wilson's books, he is of course touted as the #1 Expert on Colts. But unfortunately at the end of his career, he fell into some of the type of temptation which gets people into a room with some bars on the windows. He was accused of trying to take part in selling some fake antiques to some rich client and off he went. Not a good career move.



Anyway UPS rang the door bell around noon. I went outside and there sitting on the porch was a box. Inside were the two "Colts" I had recently purchased.


Whoever did this job has some talent. All three numbers match up.


Here is the cylinder markings.


Then the barrel. There are no other visible markings other than a partial Colt Patent on the side of the frame.

 

[sonnymiami]

maybe it wasn`t done as a deception, if the number`s match up. it could have come from the factory that way.